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Yid Army

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I don't see how this rubbish can stand up in court.  Here's the technical definition and history of the word 'Yid': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yid

 

Peter Herbert was on sky sports news earlier spouting his usual over aggressive, extremist nonsense and stating that this is a word that was used during the holocaust to round up the Jews.  I think Jim White should have had more armory than simply repeating David Camerons argument, which although a good one, needs more to address what Herbert was saying.

 

Of course they were called Yids, because that's what they were called!  They called themselves Yids and they had a language called Yiddish.  Just because it was used in the holocaust doesn't make it a horrendous term.  He was just used typical twisting the truth that lawyers do to try to win their argument.  If Jim was totally up on it before he spoke to him he would have been able to call him on it.

 

The meaning and history of the word needs to be clarified properly, the USE of the word needs to be looked at (as Cameron is alluding to) and the very FIRST thing that needs to be looked at is how people associated with spurs and the Jewish community are being RACIALLY ABUSED AND ATTACKED.

 

Then maybe lastly spurs can look at the use of the word at all, however it is meant.

 

What's so unpalatable about this whole matter at the moment is how they are first targeting the people that are the recipients of abuse.  It's truly appalling.

 

I wonder if Peter Herbert would first target black men using the n word in lyrics or white men being prejudicial to, abusing and attacking black people?

 

Why aren't the society of black lawyers taking 50 cent, Naz, Dre and so on to court for using the n word if they are wanting to charge Spurs fans for using the word Yid?  Why isn't he looking into black players and supporters using the 'n' word?

 

What have black lawyers to do with the Jewish community anyway? Surely, any concerns raised need to come from a established Jewish society group, which hasn't objected to the word in the history of Tottenham Hotspur.

 

Of course Yid is offensive if it is used in a discrimatory fashion, the same way black is offensive if it is used in an prejudicial fashion.  That does not make the term or the word negative in itself.  The more you think about this the more absurd Herbert's assertions and sticking his oar in becomes.

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I don't see how this rubbish can stand up in court.  Here's the technical definition and history of the word 'Yid': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yid

 

Peter Herbert was on sky sports news earlier spouting his usual over aggressive, extremist nonsense and stating that this is a word that was used during the holocaust to round up the Jews.  I think Jim White should have had more armoury than simply repeating David Camerons argument, which although a good one, needs more to address what Herbert was saying.

 

Of course they were called Yids, because that's what they were called!  They called themselves Yids and they had a language called Yiddish.  Just because it was used in the holocaust doesn't make it a horrendous term.  He was just used typical twisting the truth that lawyers do to try to win their argument.  If Jim was totally up on it before he spoke to him he would have been able to call him on it.

 

The meaning and history of the word needs to be clarified properly, the USE of the word needs to be looked at (as Cameron is alluding to) and the very FIRST thing that needs to be looked at is how people associated with spurs and the Jewish community are being RACIALLY ABUSED AND ATTACKED.

 

Then maybe lastly spurs can look at the use of the word at all, however it is meant.

 

What's so unpalatable about this whole matter at the moment is how they are targeting the people that are targeted for abuse first.  It's truly appalling.

 

I wonder if Peter Herbert would first target black men using the n word in lyrics or white men abusing and attacking black people?

 

Why aren't the society of black lawyers taking 50 cent, Naz, Dre and so on to court for using the n word if they are wanting to charge Spurs fans for using the word Yid?

Perfect

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how was that racist Turk?

 

If you were joking buddy, then I'll just politely ask everyone to keep the discussion clean and respectful.

 

There's a reason why we just stick to talking about boobs, fat women and football. ;) 

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The only thing making this word offensive is the people like the media who keep shouting 'its offensive!'. When you have to explain why Yid is offensive, it means the only reason that person would consider that word offensive is because you gave them a reason to. I loved being a 'Yid' and as I grew up in the states before the Internet I had no idea that was ever an offensive word.

My LOVE of the word Yid has always been because to me that meant Tottenham, not Jewish. Now people are saying that every time I use this word I'm actually saying the meaning they attached to it, not what I attach to it.

Somebody brought up the question would a Jewish Spurs fan be offended being called a yid. Well, if someone was trying to convey hate toward him because he's Jewish when they say it, then yeah, he'd probably be pissed. If someone refers to him as a yid cause he's a Spurs boy then he'd probably say 'fucking right I am'.

People keep saying the context argument is a weak one but the fact is when people at WHL chant or sing Yids, they are literally saying THFC in a different way. There isn't even any attempt at acknowledgement of the words origin. It just came from somewhere in the past but it means everything Tottenham Hotspur. If you're the one saying its offensive, then you're the one who is giving it offense. You're giving it hateful conatations and allowing it to be a weapon against other people. All we're doing is loving our football club...

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I really do feel that this topic has shown,just how very,very thin the line is,between being Racist and having a joke and a bit of banter.It also shows just how easy it is,for comments intended to make people chuckle,can be taken the wrong way.I would like to hope and believe that no one on here is genuinely Racist,but i can also see how easy it is,for some of the comments,to be taken differently to how they were intended to come across (as a laugh),some of mine included.I for one will think for a minute before I type on such a delicate subject in the future,and I apologise if anybody took offence to any of my comments.

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The earliest mention of the word Yid in print was in The Slang Dictionary published by John Camden Hotten in 1874. Hotten noted that "The Jews use these terms very frequently."[1]

After World War II, most examples of the word Yid are found in the writing of Jewish authors. These occurrences are usually either attempts to accurately portray antisemitic speech, or self-deprecating Jewish humor. In his 1968 bestseller The Joys of Yiddish, Leo Rosten offers a number of anecdotes from the "Borscht Belt" to illustrate such usage.[1]

Usage in Yiddish[edit source | editbeta]

In Yiddish, the word "Yid" Yiddish: ייד is neutral or even complimentary, and in Ashkenazi Yiddish-speaking circles it is frequently used to mean simply "fellow," "chap," "buddy," "mate," etc., with no expressed emphasis on Jewishness (although this may be implied by the intra-Jewish context). Plural is יידן [jidn].

In Yiddish, a polite way to address a fellow Jew whose name one does not know is Reb Yid, meaning "Sir." The Yiddish words yidish or yiddisher (from Middle High German jüdisch) is an adjective derived from the noun Yid, and thus means "Jewish".

Usage in European football[edit source | editbeta]

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I really do feel that this topic has shown,just how very,very thin the line is,between being Racist and having a joke and a bit of banter.It also shows just how easy it is,for comments intended to make people chuckle,can be taken the wrong way.I would like to hope and believe that no one on here is genuinely Racist,but i can also see how easy it is,for some of the comments,to be taken differently to how they were intended to come across (as a laugh),some of mine included.I for one will think for a minute before I type on such a delicate subject in the future,and I apologise if anybody took offence to any of my comments.

mate, I think sod em,  if people get so offended by words, then that's their lookout, they need to man up, grow a pair of balls and move on.

If people want to slap a label on someone else just because of their views then that makes them no better than a real racist , theyre segmenting, separating , judging and prejudicing, theyre just too blinkered to see it.

 

People in the EDL/BNP are automatically called racists, yet they (mostly) just want their own country to continue to be their own country not the bleeding united colours of the universe with multiple religions /beliefs on every City centre street corner , they don't want  hate preachers to have the freedom to spout hatred on our parks and street corners, they don't want to witness our soldiers coffins being paraded through town centres to the open and blatant derision of some (and it is only some)  extremists and whilst most people there also dont like it but refuse to actually do anything about it, EDL/BNP people will go and try to sort these terrorists supporting scum out, and for that they get labelled racist by some of the same people that also detest the anti UK soldier behaviour yet are too pathetic to do anything about it. Look of course these organisations have the mental cases in them that use them as cover and they need help and sorting out too in a different way!,  same as football had mental cases as supporters using football as cover for hooliganism, but you look and they have many well respected people in them of good standing in communities/ business though many went underground when the media started trying to name and shame them  the media that tapped private calls, the media that told murder victims parents their child was still alive just to get a cheap story , yes THAT media of such good standing that it is well placed to make such judgments!

 

On a separate note

My Dad was bombed out twice in one night in the blitz then fought in El Alamein in WWII, my Mum worked in London throughout the blitz legging it down the stairs on the office block into the shelters whenever the doodlebugs came over then back up again when the all clear sounds to go to work like nothing had happened, they had spirit, they had backbone, they were brave, they were not going to give in EVER. Believe me they didn't do all that so that in 2013 we (English) were expected to accept our soldiers coffins to be derided and not respected for fear of upsetting a rapidly growing minority 

 

 

If being proud to be English and wanting England to be 'English' makes me a racist then so be it, Id rather be that than a pathetic lilly livered weakling , jeez we'd all be talking German if these PC pansies had been so prevalent during the war

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This is the first logical and understandable counter argument I've heard on matter:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/david-cameron-yid-really-is-race-hate-word?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

 

Well done David Baddiel, even though I still am not in agreement with you.  However, at least now our fans might have a starting point to begin talking about it, because anything else said so far from the 'opposition' has made no sense what so ever.

 

The way the FA are addressing this issue is very poorly put together and communicated.  As for Herbert, of course, he is never helping.

 

Proper communication of the reasoning and ensuing discussions, debate etc. has to be high on the agenda or you are going to end up with huge problems.

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What i'm really interested in is the opinion of jewish tottenham fans instead of just asking for an opinion from season ticket holders surely the most valuable insight would be from those that support our club who this may or may not offend.

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This is the first logical and understandable counter argument I've heard on matter:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/david-cameron-yid-really-is-race-hate-word?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Thanks for pisting this, choda. I respect what Baddel said in the article, but I still don't agree with most of it.

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I know the word is offensive and would never use it,but what I am asking is WHY?If I was from Scotland could I consider myself racially abused if I was called a Scot,because the place I'm from was shortened a few letters?Exactly the same if I were from Poland and was called a Pole.I mean absolutely no offence when asking this,but if the country ended with Land instead of Stan would it be ok?I don't really see the difference.

It's how it has been used historically. If you use a word in a particular manner enough it takes on that connotation eg 'gay' originally meant cheerful, 'faggot' was a bundle of sticks or a northern English dish containing offal. However, they have been used in such a way for long enough that their meaning has changed - in the case of faggot, it has become a term of abuse - much like the p-word or yid. Spurs fans have attempted to reverse this in the case of yid but for the vast majority of people it still has those negative connotations - much like the n-word.

Mjb - I sincerely hope your post was an attempt at sarcasm...

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On a slightly different note guys, if we're going to claim that using the word 'yid' is in some way an attempt to defeat a form of racism (and I believe it is) then we should not indulge in other forms of racism or abuse. Otherwise the argument becomes hypocritical. We can't take the moral high ground one minute then complain about 'immigrants' or try to justify the EDL/ BNP the next. Britain is a nation of immigrants and has been for thousands of years (the very word 'England' is derived from a Germanic tribe of immigrants who brought their language 'English' with them!) it is what made this country 'Great' Britain.

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"On a separate note

My Dad was bombed out twice in one night in the blitz then fought in El Alamein in WWII, my Mum worked in London throughout the blitz legging it down the stairs on the office block into the shelters whenever the doodlebugs came over then back up again when the all clear sounds to go to work like nothing had happened, they had spirit, they had backbone, they were brave, they were not going to give in EVER. Believe me they didn't do all that so that in 2013 we (English) were expected to accept our soldiers coffins to be derided and not respected for fear of upsetting a rapidly growing minority

If being proud to be English and wanting England to be 'English' makes me a racist then so be it, Id rather be that than a pathetic lilly livered weakling , jeez we'd all be talking German if these PC pansies had been so prevalent during the war"

What a load of bollocks - millions of Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Kenyans, Tanzanians fought in BOTH world wars for their King and Country, which incidentally IS THE SAME AS OURS!!!!!

Your Grandad (and mine) fought for freedom from precisely the kind of racist nonsense being spouted here. We are all human, racial boundaries are arbitrary.

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