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New Stadium (or not)?

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I realise this has been touched on in the past but from a slightly view.

Apparently the new stadium has started, then it hasn't, then it's ok we've built another superstore?? But anyway my real point is this, Capacity?

We are building a new stadium of anything between 55000 to 70000 depending on which comic you read, but, my view is this;

I believe we would be far better off developing WHL, and only up to 50 to 55 thousand. This would create a more compact stadium and atmosphere would be excellent. My reason for this is there will be a lot of games that are not full and if you have 45k to 50k or less in a 55000 stadium this would be far better than in a 65k stadium? Obviously the argument would be we will fill it whatever, and I agree for certain games, but even now with 36000 we are not always full for the smaller games. I am sure I will be corrected but even this season we have only reached 3600+ on a few games. I am sure the new stadium will be great but a shame if only half or two thirds full.

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I realise this has been touched on in the past but from a slightly view.

Apparently the new stadium has started, then it hasn't, then it's ok we've built another superstore?? But anyway my real point is this, Capacity?

We are building a new stadium of anything between 55000 to 70000 depending on which comic you read, but, my view is this;

I believe we would be far better off developing WHL, and only up to 50 to 55 thousand. This would create a more compact stadium and atmosphere would be excellent. My reason for this is there will be a lot of games that are not full and if you have 45k to 50k or less in a 55000 stadium this would be far better than in a 65k stadium? Obviously the argument would be we will fill it whatever, and I agree for certain games, but even now with 36000 we are not always full for the smaller games. I am sure I will be corrected but even this season we have only reached 3600+ on a few games. I am sure the new stadium will be great but a shame if only half or two thirds full.

I think that the new stadium needs to be at least 60k capacity. It may be the case that initially some 'smaller' games may not attract enough fans to fill the stadium but it will be full for the majority which obviously provides the club with a lot more income, which in turn gives the club more money to spend on better players. That in turn stirs up additional interest in the club from people that may not usually attend games. Initially there will be empty seats but over time it will get fuller and fuller. Also, a larger stadium gives the club more opportunity to sell more packages for families and slightly reduced tickets for low demand games. 

 

I see what you're saying about atmosphere but I think a bigger stadium is needed for the long term success of the club. Not to mention the extra corporate and advertising revenue that will be generated plus naming rights. 

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An age old subject that is always great to debate. First of all, every effort has been made to explore the redevelopment of WHL, and none of them make any financial sense. The little additional capacity that can be gained from expanding the existing ground would mean that the extra revenue would never pay for the financial outlay.

 

Then there is the argument about how big the stadium should be. I believe that from an atmosphere point of view the ultimate size is about 45000, but lets be honest they are never going to build a new stadium that small. The present plan is 56000, which probably sounds about right. However, as you said, other than weekend league games we struggle to sell out. League cup games and Europa games normally have 1000s of empty seats, so what the hell would that look like in a 56000 stadium. As well as everything else, lets have a look at the infrastructure. WHL is one of the worst places to get away from whether you go by car or public transport. Although we have planning permission for 56000, I can't ever see us getting permission to build a 70000 stadium at our present venue.  

 

So what is the delay. Levy had put all his eggs in one basket and expected England to get the world cup. We would then have been given a big stash of money to help us expand. This fell through, and has thus left us short of the required funds. He doesn't want to make the same mistake as Arsenal, and leave a massive debt. Levy is also more than aware that we need CL on a regular basis to increase both our revenue and awareness on the world stage. What ever you think of AVB, if he doesn't come up with the results soon, Levy will not have the patients to keep him. Levy wants CL, and he will not accept anything else.

 

Personally I believe that if we don't get a new investor, or even buyer, we won't be seeing a new stadium for quite some time.

I realise this has been touched on in the past but from a slightly view.
Apparently the new stadium has started, then it hasn't, then it's ok we've built another superstore?? But anyway my real point is this, Capacity?
We are building a new stadium of anything between 55000 to 70000 depending on which comic you read, but, my view is this;
I believe we would be far better off developing WHL, and only up to 50 to 55 thousand. This would create a more compact stadium and atmosphere would be excellent. My reason for this is there will be a lot of games that are not full and if you have 45k to 50k or less in a 55000 stadium this would be far better than in a 65k stadium? Obviously the argument would be we will fill it whatever, and I agree for certain games, but even now with 36000 we are not always full for the smaller games. I am sure I will be corrected but even this season we have only reached 3600+ on a few games. I am sure the new stadium will be great but a shame if only half or two thirds full.

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so much ground work has already been completed. You don't see what is going on behind all the hoardings at the Lane. The time consuming stuff is al done on levelling, underground works etc. The actual @building' of the stadium takes much less time. It's all steel girders and pre-formed concrete that arrives on site and put together like a kit.

We will get the new ground and I think 56,000 is about right. Yes many people stay away from Europa League games, but if and when we get Champions League, trust me the ground will be full for every game. We also have 1,000s on waiting lists for season tickets and so have no doubt we will be full for most games.

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It depends on who we p[lay in the CL. Needless to say REAL or BARCA will bring in the punters, but clubs like that represent a small minority. Arsenal have a bigger fan base than us and have to sell their CL tickets very cheaply. You should also remember that evening games cause logistical problems for most supporters.

 

As far as the waiting list is concerned, its quite fictitious. You get put on the waiting list when you a bronze member, whether you want to be on it or not. Only a small percentage of people would take a season ticket if offered. I can assure if we had a 56000 capacity stadium, there would no longer be a waiting list. I believe Levy would have to do what Arsenal have done, and that is to include far more games in the season ticket price. Of course, this would increase the price of season tickets, and create another problem. A new stadium will always increase revenue, but it has to be increased significantly to ever pay for its self, and until Levy is confident of that, I don't think you will see a brick laid. Champions league is very much a part of plan, and until that starts to happen, expect nothing

so much ground work has already been completed. You don't see what is going on behind all the hoardings at the Lane. The time consuming stuff is al done on levelling, underground works etc. The actual @building' of the stadium takes much less time. It's all steel girders and pre-formed concrete that arrives on site and put together like a kit.

We will get the new ground and I think 56,000 is about right. Yes many people stay away from Europa League games, but if and when we get Champions League, trust me the ground will be full for every game. We also have 1,000s on waiting lists for season tickets and so have no doubt we will be full for most games.

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I think that the new stadium needs to be at least 60k capacity. It may be the case that initially some 'smaller' games may not attract enough fans to fill the stadium but it will be full for the majority which obviously provides the club with a lot more income, which in turn gives the club more money to spend on better players. That in turn stirs up additional interest in the club from people that may not usually attend games. Initially there will be empty seats but over time it will get fuller and fuller. Also, a larger stadium gives the club more opportunity to sell more packages for families and slightly reduced tickets for low demand games. 

 

I see what you're saying about atmosphere but I think a bigger stadium is needed for the long term success of the club. Not to mention the extra corporate and advertising revenue that will be generated plus naming rights. 

 

I agree.

Financially, a 56 - 60K capacity allows the club to have a flexible pricing policy and get more revenue (lower prices and more tickets sold in League Cup and less attractive games), and will generate more revenue from selling more season tickets

 

A significant issue will be the transports. I don;t know in detail what's going to happen with the plans for an additional tube station, but I think the area will need that

 

The atmosphere can be a problem. By looking at the design, I'm not sure the new stadium will be as intimidating as the current one, and it would be a shame, because it can make a big difference

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Be assured, Levy will not lower the prices. The stadium needs paying for, and he would rather it half empty than lower the prices. At present he knows he could sell out evening Europa cup and league cup games if he reduced the tickets to £10, but he won't do it. My guess is that he will increase season tickets and include more games, to get more seats filled.

I agree.

Financially, a 56 - 60K capacity allows the club to have a flexible pricing policy and get more revenue (lower prices and more tickets sold in League Cup and less attractive games), and will generate more revenue from selling more season tickets

 

A significant issue will be the transports. I don;t know in detail what's going to happen with the plans for an additional tube station, but I think the area will need that

 

The atmosphere can be a problem. By looking at the design, I'm not sure the new stadium will be as intimidating as the current one, and it would be a shame, because it can make a big difference

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We used to have a 50k capacity and much less season ticket holders and the capacity fluctuated much more than today as fans chose the matches to go to depending on the opposition & how we were playing. However many are put off now by the high prices on Stub hub & the fact that for non members getting tickets is difficult & you may get a ticket in an area of the ground with limited view. I used to go in 70's through to 93 but not since. I do think a larger stadium would attract me back. The design is as much important to keep the atmosphere as the numbers attending and the type of supporter. much has been made of our season ticket holders being older & less vocal. New supporters need to be attracted at a younger age & this would happen if it was easier to get tickets. If we could get back to the days when you could decide on the day of the match to turn up & pay to go in, it would attract many that do not go now.

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We used to have a 50k capacity and much less season ticket holders and the capacity fluctuated much more than today as fans chose the matches to go to depending on the opposition & how we were playing. However many are put off now by the high prices on Stub hub & the fact that for non members getting tickets is difficult & you may get a ticket in an area of the ground with limited view. I used to go in 70's through to 93 but not since. I do think a larger stadium would attract me back. The design is as much important to keep the atmosphere as the numbers attending and the type of supporter. much has been made of our season ticket holders being older & less vocal. New supporters need to be attracted at a younger age & this would happen if it was easier to get tickets. If we could get back to the days when you could decide on the day of the match to turn up & pay to go in, it would attract many that do not go now.

Unfortunately the days of paying on the day have long gone. The clubs wanna know who you are, where you live and when you last farted! Just in case you are a hooligan or something and they can track you down

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I realise this has been touched on in the past but from a slightly view.

Apparently the new stadium has started, then it hasn't, then it's ok we've built another superstore?? But anyway my real point is this, Capacity?

We are building a new stadium of anything between 55000 to 70000 depending on which comic you read, but, my view is this;

I believe we would be far better off developing WHL, and only up to 50 to 55 thousand. This would create a more compact stadium and atmosphere would be excellent. My reason for this is there will be a lot of games that are not full and if you have 45k to 50k or less in a 55000 stadium this would be far better than in a 65k stadium? Obviously the argument would be we will fill it whatever, and I agree for certain games, but even now with 36000 we are not always full for the smaller games. I am sure I will be corrected but even this season we have only reached 3600+ on a few games. I am sure the new stadium will be great but a shame if only half or two thirds full.

 

Planning permission, buying land, dealing with council, government funding isn't easy and takes time. It took Arsenal a long time to build their stadium. If anyone believes we would spend all this money buying properties, demolition around the site and not have any intentions to build the stadium are crazy. We have one opportunity to build the perfect stadium, so lets not rush into any decisions and take our time.

 

Aside from the physical work we've done and the huge amount of money we've spent, we've got the council, Mayor and government all involved in supporting regeneration in N17 off the back of our project, so somebody believes it's happening.

 

Size is about the right balance of demand and supply.
 
The scum could have gone up to 80k but at that size current season ticket holders would have known they had an excellent chance of being able to pick and choose their games and wouldn't buy season tickets, thus starving the scum of all the upfront cash from ST sales plus having tiny crowds/gate receipts for minor teams. They judged 60k was right for them and their new fans and seem to have got it about right.
 
DL and those around him have been undecided on 50k, 55k or 60k for 10 years.
 
My guess is we will start at the 56k and go to 60k if the demand is there and at a time the Council are being more reasonable. 

 

CzenXtG.png

 

55,000 is the perfect number IMO.

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An age old subject that is always great to debate. First of all, every effort has been made to explore the redevelopment of WHL, and none of them make any financial sense. The little additional capacity that can be gained from expanding the existing ground would mean that the extra revenue would never pay for the financial outlay.

 

Then there is the argument about how big the stadium should be. I believe that from an atmosphere point of view the ultimate size is about 45000, but lets be honest they are never going to build a new stadium that small. The present plan is 56000, which probably sounds about right. However, as you said, other than weekend league games we struggle to sell out. League cup games and Europa games normally have 1000s of empty seats, so what the hell would that look like in a 56000 stadium. As well as everything else, lets have a look at the infrastructure. WHL is one of the worst places to get away from whether you go by car or public transport. Although we have planning permission for 56000, I can't ever see us getting permission to build a 70000 stadium at our present venue.  

 

So what is the delay. Levy had put all his eggs in one basket and expected England to get the world cup. We would then have been given a big stash of money to help us expand. This fell through, and has thus left us short of the required funds. He doesn't want to make the same mistake as Arsenal, and leave a massive debt. Levy is also more than aware that we need CL on a regular basis to increase both our revenue and awareness on the world stage. What ever you think of AVB, if he doesn't come up with the results soon, Levy will not have the patients to keep him. Levy wants CL, and he will not accept anything else.

 

Personally I believe that if we don't get a new investor, or even buyer, we won't be seeing a new stadium for quite some time.

 

Levy is a very clever business man so will explore all avenues before making that final decision. A club like Spurs has a poorly sized stadium. To compete with the elite we need the right size stadium.

 

Levy will get any size stadium he wants as he holds all the cards. If Levy pulled away from Tottenham it will destroy the area; so he is in the driving seat.

 

No; we don't need a new investor. We've got one.

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Planning permission, buying land, dealing with council, government funding isn't easy and takes time. It took Arsenal a long time to build their stadium. If anyone believes we would spend all this money buying properties, demolition around the site and not have any intentions to build the stadium are crazy. We have one opportunity to build the perfect stadium, so lets not rush into any decisions and take our time.

Aside from the physical work we've done and the huge amount of money we've spent, we've got the council, Mayor and government all involved in supporting regeneration in N17 off the back of our project, so somebody believes it's happening.

Size is about the right balance of demand and supply.

The scum could have gone up to 80k but at that size current season ticket holders would have known they had an excellent chance of being able to pick and choose their games and wouldn't buy season tickets, thus starving the scum of all the upfront cash from ST sales plus having tiny crowds/gate receipts for minor teams. They judged 60k was right for them and their new fans and seem to have got it about right.

DL and those around him have been undecided on 50k, 55k or 60k for 10 years.

My guess is we will start at the 56k and go to 60k if the demand is there and at a time the Council are being more reasonable.

CzenXtG.png

55,000 is the perfect number IMO.

Good post Turk.Any truth in the rumour I heard,that we are planning to go in with an American Football franchise,and build a stadium to suit both purposes?

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Good post Turk.Any truth in the rumour I heard,that we are planning to go in with an American Football franchise,and build a stadium to suit both purposes?

 

I think there's truth in that we're exploring all our options. I wouldn't like it to happen, but it's definitely a viable option as we can build a stadium around their demands and the franchise wanting to expand globally. We could be seen as the perfect fit but at this late stage I'd be surprised.

 

A stadium could work, I like this design if we we're ever to branch the two entities together, although I'd like to see the sides closer to the action - maybe retractable seating?

 

Qwest_Field_North.jpg

 

 

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I think there's truth in that we're exploring all our options. I wouldn't like it to happen, but it's definitely a viable option as we can build a stadium around their demands and the franchise wanting to expand globally. We could be seen as the perfect fit but at this late stage I'd be surprised.

 

A stadium could work, I like this design if we we're ever to branch the two entities together, although I'd like to see the sides closer to the action - maybe retractable seating?

 

Qwest_Field_North.jpg

 

 

 

By a financial point of view I think potentially it would be a great thing for us, in any respects (revenue from renting the pitch, global marketing and sponsorships).

However, as you said, I thing we need to make sure that the ground will be intimidating enough. Stands should steep, imo, and for the football game close to the pitch. Maybe retractable seating can be the solution.

 

As you know I don't like Juve, but they have built a fantastic stadium in that respect

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I think there's truth in that we're exploring all our options. I wouldn't like it to happen, but it's definitely a viable option as we can build a stadium around their demands and the franchise wanting to expand globally. We could be seen as the perfect fit but at this late stage I'd be surprised.

A stadium could work, I like this design if we we're ever to branch the two entities together, although I'd like to see the sides closer to the action - maybe retractable seating?

Qwest_Field_North.jpg

Seattle certainly has a spectacular stadium, but I've always been uncomfortable with mixed-use stadiums; often they end up less than ideal for both sports.

Any time I see yard-lines stretched across a baseball field (Oakland) or soccer pitch (the pictured CenturyLink Field during the MLS playoffs), I just cringe.

I just read that when the Monarchs played at WHL in 95-96, the field was only 93 yards long (instead of the standard 100 yds). Although the World League was okay with that, no way the NFL would be.

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