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Tonto911

The Poch...Two different views.....

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4 hours ago, Garyjones1271 said:

But you are very new to this game and it's not all about facts I'm afraid. I judge on watching from the  south stand and what I'm watching is a tactically inept manager and a team playing  dross. I personally will not ever agree with anyone who supports this man. I've said all along he will be sacked by the end of the season. I'm a pessimist not an optimist.

 

Actually, it IS all about facts. The fact is that you don't like The Poch, despise him even..... You are not alone in this, and I think I understand your point of view, but as you kinow don't agree with you.

Opinions on the facts are all that we can offer, and I am sure that when we start winning again many will remind you of what you have said at this time when things are not going as well as we all wish them to.

I won't do that, it is not my style, but forgive me if I read them and chuckle to myself.

 

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1 hour ago, Tonto911 said:

 

Actually, it IS all about facts. The fact is that you don't like The Poch, despise him even..... You are not alone in this, and I think I understand your point of view, but as you kinow don't agree with you.

Opinions on the facts are all that we can offer, and I am sure that when we start winning again many will remind you of what you have said at this time when things are not going as well as we all wish them to.

I won't do that, it is not my style, but forgive me if I read them and chuckle to myself.

 

By all means please remind me, I'm more than happy for anyone to remind me, truly I am because it would mean we are top 4 and are about to win a trophy, I'd take that over me being right about him all day. But at the same time please forgive me if not jumping through hoops if we beat Swansea 3-0 or Sunderland 2-0, when we go to the etihad needing a win to take us into second place or old Trafford to clinch champions league then you'll see a different me, a happy me, a respectful to the poch me, 

however beating Stoke at home to clinch 5th place lying 10 points off the champions is not going to change my mind so as stated so many times unless we improve or at least match last seasons position then you will only here negativity from me with regards to the poch as you call him.

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2 hours ago, Garyjones1271 said:

By all means please remind me, I'm more than happy for anyone to remind me, truly I am because it would mean we are top 4 and are about to win a trophy, I'd take that over me being right about him all day. But at the same time please forgive me if not jumping through hoops if we beat Swansea 3-0 or Sunderland 2-0, when we go to the etihad needing a win to take us into second place or old Trafford to clinch champions league then you'll see a different me, a happy me, a respectful to the poch me, 

however beating Stoke at home to clinch 5th place lying 10 points off the champions is not going to change my mind so as stated so many times unless we improve or at least match last seasons position then you will only here negativity from me with regards to the poch as you call him.

I'm with you Gary. I consistently have criticised Poch for 12 months for what I have perceived to be failings:

walker/Rose - Crossing accurate ball. Lamela  - Loose cannon Yellow cards.  Eriksen. - Committment. 2nd Striker.  Team Captain. Weakened teams vs Liverpool. Monaco but more so Champions League performances. Non sensical pre and post match comments. " We don't have squad for CL" Europa League good for us"" Agh!  I am sure I could go on........

Those that disagree with our opinions tend not to comment on our criticisms but point to the future as a solution to our current performances.It will better tomorrow!!!!   OK but HowWhy!!!!   I also wish I am wrong because Spurs would be playing well.......

 

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25 minutes ago, Asc3 said:

I'm with you Gary. I consistently have criticised Poch for 12 months for what I have perceived to be failings:

walker/Rose - Crossing accurate ball. Lamela  - Loose cannon Yellow cards.  Eriksen. - Committment. 2nd Striker.  Team Captain. Weakened teams vs Liverpool. Monaco but more so Champions League performances. Non sensical pre and post match comments. " We don't have squad for CL" Europa League good for us"" Agh!  I am sure I could go on........

Those that disagree with our opinions tend not to comment on our criticisms but point to the future as a solution to our current performances.It will better tomorrow!!!!   OK but HowWhy!!!!   I also wish I am wrong because Spurs would be playing well.......

 

We tend to agree on the majority of posts/thoughts and things concerning Tottenham, we all see different things I know that but I'm never surer than poch is not improving us and will fail this season, I'm like you I could literally go on and on about mistakes Infact blatant mistakes that he has made, but there's no point, I'm gonna be honest now and say there is a part of me that doesn't want poch to be successful because I literally can't stand listening to him, when I'm watching it's painful, I sit there and wonder why I do it, leave my wife and daughters every weekend to watch a team I don't even like, is that possible to love your club second only to family but not like the team? Cus that's how I feel but I'm still there every week. 1 thing I did notice is that there were no poch defenders on here sat evening or Sunday commenting. Wonder why that was. I bet the aforementioned will be on here sat if we beat Swansea.

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2 minutes ago, Garyjones1271 said:

We tend to agree on the majority of posts/thoughts and things concerning Tottenham, we all see different things I know that but I'm never surer than poch is not improving us and will fail this season, I'm like you I could literally go on and on about mistakes Infact blatant mistakes that he has made, but there's no point, I'm gonna be honest now and say there is a part of me that doesn't want poch to be successful because I literally can't stand listening to him, when I'm watching it's painful, I sit there and wonder why I do it, leave my wife and daughters every weekend to watch a team I don't even like, is that possible to love your club second only to family but not like the team? Cus that's how I feel but I'm still there every week. 1 thing I did notice is that there were no poch defenders on here sat evening or Sunday commenting. Wonder why that was. I bet the aforementioned will be on here sat if we beat Swansea.

I certainly don't feel the need to defend any individual at THFC on here just to appease you and your little anti management group.

I have already stated that I don't make predictions, and believe the only time to judge is at the end of the season.

I just post on here to give my opinions/feelings on a particular subject in a particular thread, or even start one if I feel there might be interest in a different perspective not previously visited.

 

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1 hour ago, Tonto911 said:

I certainly don't feel the need to defend any individual at THFC on here just to appease you and your little anti management group.

I have already stated that I don't make predictions, and believe the only time to judge is at the end of the season.

I just post on here to give my opinions/feelings on a particular subject in a particular thread, or even start one if I feel there might be interest in a different perspective not previously visited.

 

Ok tonto let's clear something up. I am not part of any group, if you feel the need to make these little jibes then please do it to someone else because it really does piss me off. I'm happy for you to post on anything I write and I'll read anything and everything, I'll certainly never agree with what you say because we have separate and different views. I could say your part of the " I wanna stick 1 up pochs arse  group but that's derogatory so I'll refrain from the tit for tat with you. You think poch is great I think he's shit let's leave it at that. 

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I don't know why you are so sensitive to my comments. You and a couple of others (ASC3 and jamesinashby) have consistently made it clear that you don't rate/like/respect/admire The Poch, that is a small group that currently do not like 'the management'.

Surely you can recognise that it is similar to your comment "poch defenders", which I assume was aimed at me as well as others with similar views.

You state that you see that comment as a "jibe". I wrote it purely as an observation. I don't see how that leads you to accuse me of having a romantic interest in The Poch, (to paraphrase in a polite way).

I am not interested in attempting to piss you off, and I usually only respond to you when you have specifically requested me, or sometimes by implication, to do so, by asking me a question.

I don't expect you to agree with me on this particular issue, but you state that you'll "certainly never agree " with what I say. I am surprised that you state that now, because in the past you have agreed with me on certain points made on other subjects.

Actually, I don't think the Poch is great, but I do believe that he has shown that he does have something about him, and could/should get us playing well again as a team, and win trophies. Greatness comes a while after that.

Hey, never mind. Vive le difference !

 

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Guest Borodin

You think poch is great I think he's shit let's leave it at that. 

Hey, never mind. Vive le difference !

Can we call that a 1-1 draw lads......?

 

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4 hours ago, Tonto911 said:

I certainly don't feel the need to defend any individual at THFC on here just to appease you and your little anti management group.

I have already stated that I don't make predictions, and believe the only time to judge is at the end of the season.

I just post on here to give my opinions/feelings on a particular subject in a particular thread, or even start one if I feel there might be interest in a different perspective not previously visited.

 

Tonto you have been doing so well and now you revert to type. There is no anti Poch "Group" there are individuals with the similar or same views. Occasionally you seem to provoke people into replying in an extreme manner. 

I tend to repeat the same criticisms of Poch on various threads especially in the last couple of weeks. If you are going to blindly defend him why don't you specifically answer the points raised and gain the respect of the few that have no faith in Poch who will understand your position.

i can assure you I take no pleasure in criticising Spurs but Poch is/has taken us on a slow decline and I fail to see how he can turn things around when he does not appear to recognise the problems. He says nothing to suggest he understands what is going on so how can I expect he will sort it out. Questioning bad results cannot be a bad thing!!!!

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36 minutes ago, Asc3 said:

Tonto you have been doing so well and now you revert to type. There is no anti Poch "Group" there are individuals with the similar or same views. Occasionally you seem to provoke people into replying in an extreme manner. 

I tend to repeat the same criticisms of Poch on various threads especially in the last couple of weeks. If you are going to blindly defend him why don't you specifically answer the points raised and gain the respect of the few that have no faith in Poch who will understand your position.

i can assure you I take no pleasure in criticising Spurs but Poch is/has taken us on a slow decline and I fail to see how he can turn things around when he does not appear to recognise the problems. He says nothing to suggest he understands what is going on so how can I expect he will sort it out. Questioning bad results cannot be a bad thing!!!!

I do not "blindly defend him,. Actually, I have answered "specifically" some of "the points raised", but when any THFC player/manager/director is just labelled as "shit" on a THFC forum, then that tends to provoke me, and others, also to reply "in an extreme manner".

You state that The Poch "is/has taken us on a slow decline..."   Decline from where ? From 2nd place in the Prem perhaps ? From playing some of the best football that THFC have played for many years, which almost everybody (THFC fans and others...) ageed with? Mmmm, who got us there in the first place ?

We have repeated that form on probably two occasions so far this season, without our full strength team, so there is every chance that when we are back to full strength again we can repeat regularly. But, like all things in football, there is no guarantee. I choose to think and be postive/optimistic about our future, and nobody is ever going to convince me to change that way of thinking. If, at the end of the season I am wrong, then so be it.

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On 27/11/2016 at 5:25 PM, Neophyte said:

This. So much this.

I'm not thrilled with some of what I see on the pitch some days. Some days I'm not happy with anything I see on the pitch. Having said that I have to say I am happier than I was under Tim or AVB. Happier than I was with the merry-go-round of managers leading up to Poch. I like continuity. I have watched my NFL team change coaches and quarterbacks every season or two since the late 90's. If the NFL had such a thing as relegation my club would have gone down at least twice in that time frame. No coach was given the chance to stay long enough to do anything and each new coach inherited a roster of players that was a miss mass of guys brought in to fit numerous different systems. We the fans suffered every weekend...hoping and praying that something good might happen. 

Poch said last year that the success we were seeing then was "ahead of plan". We all knew that big money signings were not going to happen while we were building a stadium. We see Poch and the squad working on new formations with new tactics. It isn't smooth. Yet. The old plan got us to 3rd last year and it gave Chelsea that biggest test Conte's men have had in 7 matches. 

I cannot directly impact or change anything that happens in training, on the pitch or in the board room so I choose to believe in the plan. I choose to believe in Poch and in Levy. I wasn't born into loving this team like many of you and I came late to the party. I could have supported Chelsea or Arsenal or Man U or any other side but I liked the spirit at White Hart Lane. I liked the fact that Spurs weren't trying to buy a title but rather to go out and earn one. This club is still doing things in a way I like. A way I can be proud of. Yeah, we have bought some players but we aren't doing anything stupid (outside of Sissoko).

I don't know where it's going but I choose to believe. That doesn't mean we will succeed but I'm a hell of a lot happier doing it this way.

Wise words.

 

"late to the party" you say.

check out this website... so much to see, and a great way to remind me of things that I did experience and yet have forgotten the exact details - hours of pleasure.

Let me know what you think.  http://www.topspurs.com/

 

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7 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

I do not "blindly defend him,. Actually, I have answered "specifically" some of "the points raised", but when any THFC player/manager/director is just labelled as "shit" on a THFC forum, then that tends to provoke me, and others, also to reply "in an extreme manner".

You state that The Poch "is/has taken us on a slow decline..."   Decline from where ? From 2nd place in the Prem perhaps ? From playing some of the best football that THFC have played for many years, which almost everybody (THFC fans and others...) ageed with? Mmmm, who got us there in the first place ?

We have repeated that form on probably two occasions so far this season, without our full strength team, so there is every chance that when we are back to full strength again we can repeat regularly. But, like all things in football, there is no guarantee. I choose to think and be postive/optimistic about our future, and nobody is ever going to convince me to change that way of thinking. If, at the end of the season I am wrong, then so be it.

Very well put,I tend to agree with you.If we had a defeatist attitude we'd probably give up supporting Spurs.

We've been it it too long to stop now.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

I do not "blindly defend him,. Actually, I have answered "specifically" some of "the points raised", but when any THFC player/manager/director is just labelled as "shit" on a THFC forum, then that tends to provoke me, and others, also to reply "in an extreme manner".

You state that The Poch "is/has taken us on a slow decline..."   Decline from where ? From 2nd place in the Prem perhaps ? From playing some of the best football that THFC have played for many years, which almost everybody (THFC fans and others...) ageed with? Mmmm, who got us there in the first place ?

We have repeated that form on probably two occasions so far this season, without our full strength team, so there is every chance that when we are back to full strength again we can repeat regularly. But, like all things in football, there is no guarantee. I choose to think and be postive/optimistic about our future, and nobody is ever going to convince me to change that way of thinking. If, at the end of the season I am wrong, then so be it.

I'm sure you are right. We are 5th and only 7 points  behind 1st place after a third of the season. Bowing out of the cups without a fight is ingenious it allows us to concentrate on the Premier.

i will try to be a little more optimistic hoping it sets the tone for some fantastic results between now and Xmas. And a ??Place leading us into the new year....

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9 minutes ago, Asc3 said:

I'm sure you are right. We are 5th and only 7 points  behind 1st place after a third of the season. Bowing out of the cups without a fight is ingenious it allows us to concentrate on the Premier.

i will try to be a little more optimistic hoping it sets the tone for some fantastic results between now and Xmas. And a ??Place leading us into the new year....

I was referring to our 2nd place towards the end of last season, when our "decline" started.....

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3 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

I was referring to our 2nd place towards the end of last season, when our "decline" started.....

You said in the thread before this one you would wait until the end of the season before you judge Poch/Spurs.

i don't want to spoil your anticipation but we ain't going to be 3rd this season.

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4 minutes ago, Asc3 said:

You said in the thread before this one you would wait until the end of the season before you judge Poch/Spurs.

i don't want to spoil your anticipation but we ain't going to be 3rd this season.

Mmmm, you've lost me...

I did say that I would wait until the end of the season, and I have said nothing to contradict that.

I wrote: " You state that The Poch "is/has taken us on a slow decline..."   Decline from where ? From 2nd place in the Prem perhaps ? From playing some of the best football that THFC have played for many years, which almost everybody (THFC fans and others...) ageed with? Mmmm, who got us there in the first place ? "

I was seeking a response from you, and did not receive one, and there were 4 questions there...

Never mind, just treat them as rhetorical...

lol

 

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35 minutes ago, stanmac said:

Very well put,I tend to agree with you.If we had a defeatist attitude we'd probably give up supporting Spurs.

We've been it it too long to stop now.

 

 

Stan it's not a defeatist attitude mate it's a realistic attitude. I don't spend money weekly thinking we're going to lose on purpose. It's based on the performances and. We're a third into the season. I will never give up on Tottenham I have given up on poch though and it's simply because I don't think he has anything more to offer our club. I guess at the end of the season we will all decide wether or not I was right to give up on him.

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15 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

Mmmm, you've lost me...

I did say that I would wait until the end of the season, and I have said nothing to contradict that.

I wrote: " You state that The Poch "is/has taken us on a slow decline..."   Decline from where ? From 2nd place in the Prem perhaps ? From playing some of the best football that THFC have played for many years, which almost everybody (THFC fans and others...) ageed with? Mmmm, who got us there in the first place ? "

I was seeking a response from you, and did not receive one, and there were 4 questions there...

Never mind, just treat them as rhetorical...

lol

 

Cmon matey!! I'm an optimist now I don't answer awkward questions or justify my opinions I prefer to sit  and wait until the end of season. I shall post an optimistic thread after the goal fest!!! Against Swansea.....

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I understand where your coming from Gary.

I'm very often left shaking my head in disbelief at some of Poch's selections.

Substitutions,,,,,,now here is where I rarely agree with him.Bringing on the wrong players taking off the wrong players He really infuriates me.

Nevertheless ,,I'm going to stand by him for the rest of the season.

Here's hoping,,perhaps praying would be a better option that it all comes good in the end.

 

 

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Poch is not good or bad considering our lot of players. He is there, same level. A good trainer but shit on tactics. 

I dont believe in him for long term, he didnt improve his abilities at all in these years. But we need silence in this period, until the stadium is build.

 

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OK - time to throw my hat into the ring. 

Poch has his faults (all managers do), but I want him to stay. The most successful clubs are those who get a good manager and keep him. I was sick and tired of us replacing managers faster than the soap dispenser in the executive washroom. 

I loved the way we played last season - it was entertaining and successful. Of course we went off the rails at the end of the season and have not got going properly this season so far, but when we are on top of our game we are a joy to watch.

It's easy to find fault, but the fact remains that we are about the 5th or 6th richest club in the PL and that is where we should be finishing. Above that is a good season and below that is a bad season.

We all have our gripes about purchasing players too, but we have tried it all ways and had some successes and some failures, whether we buy experienced "PL ready" stars or raw young talent. We are no different to most other clubs in that respect.

My main gripe with Poch is the way he dismisses all but the PL as unimportant, but maybe that is an instruction (or guidance) from above. 

COYS

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13 hours ago, Asc3 said:

Cmon matey!! I'm an optimist now I don't answer awkward questions or justify my opinions I prefer to sit  and wait until the end of season. I shall post an optimistic thread after the goal fest!!! Against Swansea.....

lol

 

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