Jump to content
Spurs Web
Royce 71

What does this mean?

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Royce 71 said:

To you all! Be right! Please be right!

Top 3 again this season.  Maybe some silverware. The Poch and our top players remain for another attempt at a title shot in 19/20. We add quality or at least by recognised potential quality to the squad to maintain our "march"!

Please, please don't be wrong!

Another season without silverware. An early exit from The CL. 6th place finish or worse. Poch and our top players leave as a result. Can you imagine that happening after we were perched on the foot of greatness at the end of 17/18?

I can see it!

Oh dear.

It's not about being right, and/or being right or wrong in what we believe.

It's about interpreting the information given out by THFC, and DL, and the Poch, and players (and the fact they sign long contracts), that they all know the plans, the short and long term objectives, and how close we are...

I remember recently The Poch stating that his team are ahead of schedule in The Project... which was a 5 year plan to get in the stadium and play CL football......

It's there for all to see... well maybe 99.91% lol.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cromulentmart said:

I think the actuality may lie somewhere in between

Would you be prepared to elaborate Crom. Actually Crom! I'm gonna start a new topic to see what sort of response it gets and if you want to my friend replay on that.

 

COYS!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Royce 71 said:

Would you be prepared to elaborate Crom. Actually Crom! I'm gonna start a new topic to see what sort of response it gets and if you want to my friend replay on that.

 

COYS!

Silverware is not out of the question - we even have a chance of getting out of the CL group as things stand and if we don't, then we can have a crack at the EL.

We may still be in the LC after tonight and the FA Cup has not even started for us yet.

We were never going to win the title this season, but 4th is not unrealistic at this early stage.

But even if we get nothing this season, I am still confident for the future .... my one wish would be to finish in the top 4 this season. I could live with that and count it a success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

Oh dear.

It's not about being right, and/or being right or wrong in what we believe.

It's about interpreting the information given out by THFC, and DL, and the Poch, and players (and the fact they sign long contracts), that they all know the plans, the short and long term objectives, and how close we are...

I remember recently The Poch stating that his team are ahead of schedule in The Project... which was a 5 year plan to get in the stadium and play CL football......

It's there for all to see... well maybe 99.91% lol.....

I cannot compete with someone who has extensive (there for all to see!!) statistical knowledge that you obviously have Tonto.

But I will ask the wise ones what ahead of schedule means and when you are ahead of a schedule is it the norm to revert backwards just to maintain the first schedule in the first place?

Complicated question I agree, but so was your reply Tonto!

Ps: Of course opinions are eventually about being right or wrong!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cromulentmart said:

Silverware is not out of the question - we even have a chance of getting out of the CL group as things stand and if we don't, then we can have a crack at the EL.

We may still be in the LC after tonight and the FA Cup has not even started for us yet.

We were never going to win the title this season, but 4th is not unrealistic at this early stage.

But even if we get nothing this season, I am still confident for the future .... my one wish would be to finish in the top 4 this season. I could live with that and count it a success.

See new topic! What will be acceptable to you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Royce 71 said:

 

But I will ask the wise ones what ahead of schedule means and when you are ahead of a schedule is it the norm to revert backwards just to maintain the first schedule in the first place?

Complicated question I agree, but so was your reply Tonto!

 

Doh !

He shoots, and misses...

The "99.91%" comment was aimed at another poster....

The Project has been mentioned many times by the club, and especially The Poch when he is regularly asked the same old questions over and over....

A bit like on here.... but more surprising on here considering we all claim to be THFC fans...

It is absurd to suggest, as you do, that the club has decided to "revert backwards" .

Apart from your tautological inaccuracy, which is nonsense, THFC are progressing towards achieving PL football in the new stadium by 2019.

The point that I was trying to make to you, yet again, was that in 'overachieving' as some people describe our 'journey', unfair and in some cases ignorant negative criticism is the first response made following a defeat, or even below par performance.

Have you not read, like I have, about "The Project" ?

If you are aware of it then why can't you understand my point of view - even if you don't agree with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Tonto911 said:

Doh !

He shoots, and misses...

The "99.91%" comment was aimed at another poster....

The Project has been mentioned many times by the club, and especially The Poch when he is regularly asked the same old questions over and over....

A bit like on here.... but more surprising on here considering we all claim to be THFC fans...

It is absurd to suggest, as you do, that the club has decided to "revert backwards" .

Apart from your tautological inaccuracy, which is nonsense, THFC are progressing towards achieving PL football in the new stadium by 2019.

The point that I was trying to make to you, yet again, was that in 'overachieving' as some people describe our 'journey', unfair and in some cases ignorant negative criticism is the first response made following a defeat, or even below par performance.

Have you not read, like I have, about "The Project" ?

If you are aware of it then why can't you understand my point of view - even if you don't agree with it.

Ok! Lets both agree that sometimes posts can be "misinterpreted" and getting your opinion across, making your point wont always be received in the way you hoped. Not liked or disliked, just understood! It happens a lot, but some of us refrain from the sarcastic "Oh Dear" and "Doh" and "He shoots and misses" openings to their replies, plus many more!

That aside lets start again and try to briefly simplify both our points/arguments.....

Yours Tonto I think!

Poch/Enic had a 5 year plan which we are 4 years into.

Regardless of the outcome of this (maybe 6th place of worse. No silverware and an early CL exit) 18/19 season that plan will still be in place and continue to be implemented.

Then in year 5, the completion year, (season 19/20) 8 months from now we will after half a season in The New Lane, we will do and be able to do what is necessary to return us the top flight!

Or! As you believe that wont be necessary because we will maintain our progress this season by finishing 2nd/ 3rd and maintaining CL football which attracts the best!

Have I got the basic premise of your opinion right?

If I have, then my opinion to that Tonto is, why did we not then "adjust" the 5 year plan (just 12 months earlier) at the end of year/season 4 when we sat perched/primed (fantastic nucleus of a squad) after spending relatively little money to arrive where we sat to enhance (strengthened  the first 11 and refreshed the squad by replacing obviously not good enough squad players with good enough squad players. Small list can be provided by me) our chances of completing that 5 year plan within 60 months after watching our rivals strengthen!!

Point! Are we really looking up at City/Utd/Chelsea/Woolwich/Liverpool or are we just looking behind us and just concerned about keeping Watford/Everton and alike at bay?

My argument sir!  For the sake of 150mill (epl peanuts) we should have been looking up and were in a prime position to do so and Enic bottled it and unless we have a very "fortunate" season this season, I believe the lack of investment this summer will come back to haunt us for a very long time to come and we will not be able to bounce back in "project" year 5 if that finds us in the Europa league (at best) when once again our rivals, The City's, Utd, Chelsea, Woolwich and Liverpool's will go again and strengthen making them no longer our rivals and our concerns, our fight and focus will be with the Everton's and Watford's!

All after we were in touching distance!!

DL has hood-winked us all, including Poch!  Enic were never serious about challenging the elite! A profitable business model/turnover, which included the new stadia will suffice!

It ain't about the glory with them! It's about the balance sheet! An for the mediocre minded Spurs fans, that will do too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Royce 71 said:

So its been decided! It was a slur then???

I don't know what has or has not been decided. What I know is that usually, not always but usually, when I see quotation marks on the internet someone is trying to imply something. Often that something is pushing the edge of insulting. Coupled with the use of the term American (which I can only assume was aimed at me since I am the most active Yank on this board), it felt like you were aiming for something negative. Please notice I said I hoped I was wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/1/2018 at 9:32 AM, Royce 71 said:

If I have, then my opinion to that Tonto is, why did we not then "adjust" the 5 year plan (just 12 months earlier) at the end of year/season 4 when we sat perched/primed (fantastic nucleus of a squad) after spending relatively little money to arrive where we sat to enhance (strengthened  the first 11 and refreshed the squad by replacing obviously not good enough squad players with good enough squad players. Small list can be provided by me) our chances of completing that 5 year plan within 60 months after watching our rivals strengthen!!

Point! Are we really looking up at City/Utd/Chelsea/Woolwich/Liverpool or are we just looking behind us and just concerned about keeping Watford/Everton and alike at bay?

My argument sir!  For the sake of 150mill (epl peanuts) we should have been looking up and were in a prime position to do so and Enic bottled it and unless we have a very "fortunate" season this season, I believe the lack of investment this summer will come back to haunt us for a very long time to come and we will not be able to bounce back in "project" year 5 if that finds us in the Europa league (at best) when once again our rivals, The City's, Utd, Chelsea, Woolwich and Liverpool's will go again and strengthen making them no longer our rivals and our concerns, our fight and focus will be with the Everton's and Watford's!

All after we were in touching distance!!

DL has hood-winked us all, including Poch!  Enic were never serious about challenging the elite! A profitable business model/turnover, which included the new stadia will suffice!

It ain't about the glory with them! It's about the balance sheet! An for the mediocre minded Spurs fans, that will do too!

With the vast sums of money involved here and the fluctuations in finances due to the effects of Brexit (whether it happens or not, it has seriously impacted the stadium build) and construction delays, I honestly don't see how an adjustment to the plan was truly possible.

With the recent news about the club having to further increase the size of the loan to nearly 640 million on the stadium I just can't view 150 million on players as "peanuts" either. I also can't sanction the idea that we should have sold viable starters who are world class at their positions(like Alderweireld or Rose) to bring in new players. For me that is a 1 for 1 trade off that in no ways strengthens the squad. It just brings in new faces which can often be as bad for the team as it is good. Certainly, I could have been on board with selling players who do not fit with Poch's plans. I can see where we might have sold GKN and Llorente then used those funds to bring in one player to upgrade the squad. Perhaps one could also add Dembele to that list (still think he is very likely off to China in January) but he has played serious minutes for the club this season and been mostly very solid. It would still be trading 2 or 3 players for 1 though which really isn't strengthening.

I have now seen it reported in multiple places that Poch has the final say on players in or out, and that includes the price tag. It has also been reported that Poch did not deem any of the players available in the transfer window to be worth the price being sought by the selling club. I know at this point someone will bring up Shaqiri. Yes, he is obviously worth the 13 million or whatever Liverpool paid for him and I will admit he is doing a job for Klopp. Even if we assume that Poch wanted him, we still don't know if the player wanted to come to Spurs. For all we know an advance was made only to be brushed off by the player himself because he really wanted to go to Liverpool.

The last point I want to make directly addresses the last two lines in your post, Royce.

At the level Spurs are now, challenging to be elite and the balance sheet are linked in such a way as to inseparable. Let us assume you are correct and this is only about the money for ENIC, Levy and Lewis. If that is the case, they want to the club to be worth the most it can be. For that to happen, bigger and longer sponsorship deals are required. This includes but is not limited to the name on the kit (AIA), the kit maker (Nike), perhaps a sleeve sponsor, stadium naming rights, the NFL, and likely another dozen things I'm too thick to understand. For those sponsors to pay the money that is currently going to clubs like Man U, Chelsea, Barca, Real and PSG, our club will have be in the biggest competitions and chasing titles. Those sponsors pay that money because they know their name will be our TV screens and in the printed media more often with a successful team that makes deep runs in all competitions. They also know that the more successful a team is the more supporters they will attract which means more of their gear being sold and more fans walking around with their name on the shirt that fan is wearing. Consider the free advertising former kit sponsors currently get during every Spurs match with all the supporters in the stands wearing kit from years gone by. 

ENIC, Lewis, and Levy have damn fine business minds. If I can figure this out, they are way ahead of me. If they want to maximize the value of the club they know they absolutely have to maximize the product on the pitch. There is no way they can't see it and no way they aren't interested in it. It is, quite simply, required for them to meet the business goals you have stated so often you believe they are pursuing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
19 hours ago, hastingsyid said:

you and stan both and worse you mucky bastards

 We've got some beautiful sheep here in Wales.

One even came runner up in the Miss South Coast Beauty Competition.She was dressed up in women's clothes and high heels.

It was a fix ...she was the prettiest contestant by a mile.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/1/2018 at 2:32 PM, Royce 71 said:

Ok! Lets both agree that sometimes posts can be "misinterpreted" and getting your opinion across, making your point wont always be received in the way you hoped. Not liked or disliked, just understood! It happens a lot, but some of us refrain from the sarcastic "Oh Dear" and "Doh" and "He shoots and misses" openings to their replies, plus many more!

That aside lets start again and try to briefly simplify both our points/arguments.....

Yours Tonto I think!

Poch/Enic had a 5 year plan which we are 4 years into.

Regardless of the outcome of this (maybe 6th place of worse. No silverware and an early CL exit) 18/19 season that plan will still be in place and continue to be implemented.

Then in year 5, the completion year, (season 19/20) 8 months from now we will after half a season in The New Lane, we will do and be able to do what is necessary to return us the top flight!

Or! As you believe that wont be necessary because we will maintain our progress this season by finishing 2nd/ 3rd and maintaining CL football which attracts the best!

Have I got the basic premise of your opinion right?

If I have, then my opinion to that Tonto is, why did we not then "adjust" the 5 year plan (just 12 months earlier) at the end of year/season 4 when we sat perched/primed (fantastic nucleus of a squad) after spending relatively little money to arrive where we sat to enhance (strengthened  the first 11 and refreshed the squad by replacing obviously not good enough squad players with good enough squad players. Small list can be provided by me) our chances of completing that 5 year plan within 60 months after watching our rivals strengthen!!

Point! Are we really looking up at City/Utd/Chelsea/Woolwich/Liverpool or are we just looking behind us and just concerned about keeping Watford/Everton and alike at bay?

My argument sir!  For the sake of 150mill (epl peanuts) we should have been looking up and were in a prime position to do so and Enic bottled it and unless we have a very "fortunate" season this season, I believe the lack of investment this summer will come back to haunt us for a very long time to come and we will not be able to bounce back in "project" year 5 if that finds us in the Europa league (at best) when once again our rivals, The City's, Utd, Chelsea, Woolwich and Liverpool's will go again and strengthen making them no longer our rivals and our concerns, our fight and focus will be with the Everton's and Watford's!

All after we were in touching distance!!

DL has hood-winked us all, including Poch!  Enic were never serious about challenging the elite! A profitable business model/turnover, which included the new stadia will suffice!

It ain't about the glory with them! It's about the balance sheet! An for the mediocre minded Spurs fans, that will do too!

My understanding regarding your point on the 5 year plan is a really basic (no sarcasm intended) answer.

If it's a five year plan, it will have been costed over that 5 year period, so extra finance can not be introduced.

However, due to scale and problems involved with continuing Stadium development, more money was needed for this vital element of the plan.

i may be wrong, but maybe/possibly that was part of the decision process when the summer transfer window opened and shut without any trade from us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

My understanding regarding your point on the 5 year plan is a really basic (no sarcasm intended) answer.

If it's a five year plan, it will have been costed over that 5 year period, so extra finance can not be introduced.

However, due to scale and problems involved with continuing Stadium development, more money was needed for this vital element of the plan.

i may be wrong, but maybe/possibly that was part of the decision process when the summer transfer window opened and shut without any trade from us.

I agree Tonto. I was trying, (as stated) to simplify my point! An potentially there lies the problem. I just cannot get my head around the fact, that either...….

1: We did not prep in Jan/Feb to sell £75mill worth of peripheral squad players and improve/recruit 150mill worth of replacements.

or

2: A you say we were on course for this 5 year plan, why did we not add another 150mill to our debt and recruit!

Over the past 4 years our net spend has been something like 25mill! I know you will agree we have the best manager and squad nucleus we have had for many a year. I appreciate the stadium has gone over budget to the degree of about 3-400mill but why start a marathon only to stop (silly analogy) on mile 24 because your worried about having to buy a new pair of trainers!

I posted a link of Carragher/Neville debating our topic. It could be you and me sitting in the studio (or pub) take a look:)

COYS!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Royce 71 said:

I agree Tonto. I was trying, (as stated) to simplify my point! An potentially there lies the problem. I just cannot get my head around the fact, that either...….

1: We did not prep in Jan/Feb to sell £75mill worth of peripheral squad players and improve/recruit 150mill worth of replacements.

or

2: A you say we were on course for this 5 year plan, why did we not add another 150mill to our debt and recruit!

Over the past 4 years our net spend has been something like 25mill! I know you will agree we have the best manager and squad nucleus we have had for many a year. I appreciate the stadium has gone over budget to the degree of about 3-400mill but why start a marathon only to stop (silly analogy) on mile 24 because your worried about having to buy a new pair of trainers!

I posted a link of Carragher/Neville debating our topic. It could be you and me sitting in the studio (or pub) take a look:)

COYS!

 

24 minutes ago, Tonto911 said:

My understanding regarding your point on the 5 year plan is a really basic (no sarcasm intended) answer.

If it's a five year plan, it will have been costed over that 5 year period, so extra finance can not be introduced.

However, due to scale and problems involved with continuing Stadium development, more money was needed for this vital element of the plan.

i may be wrong, but maybe/possibly that was part of the decision process when the summer transfer window opened and shut without any trade from us.

If it's a five year plan, it will have been costed over that 5 year period, so extra finance can not be introduced.

This is the bit I cannot get! We are/was so close (imo) to becoming a permanent top 4/European side and again in my opinion we have taken a massive gamble by not strengthening in the summer to enhance that position, all for the sake of 70-150mill!

If we fall from grace this season all of the previous GREAT work could start to unravel! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Royce 71 said:

 

If it's a five year plan, it will have been costed over that 5 year period, so extra finance can not be introduced.

This is the bit I cannot get! We are/was so close (imo) to becoming a permanent top 4/European side and again in my opinion we have taken a massive gamble by not strengthening in the summer to enhance that position, all for the sake of 70-150mill!

If we fall from grace this season all of the previous GREAT work could start to unravel! 

Of course, just like any other team... However, I think the foundations are strong enough to prevent a collapse. We'll just have to wait and watch us try to get back to our best performance level again. In the meantime COYS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Royce 71 said:

I agree Tonto. I was trying, (as stated) to simplify my point! An potentially there lies the problem. I just cannot get my head around the fact, that either...….

1: We did not prep in Jan/Feb to sell £75mill worth of peripheral squad players and improve/recruit 150mill worth of replacements.

or

2: A you say we were on course for this 5 year plan, why did we not add another 150mill to our debt and recruit!

What peripheral squad players do we have for whom we can get this 75 million?

Add 150 million to the debt? Seriously?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James,Tonto,Crom,Roycey

I think we should have strengthened the squad in last Summers transfer window.

but it doesn't matter because we have players returning from injury and  other players signing what feels like lifetime contracts. The contract signings are for the love of the Club and little to do with increases in the 100-150 per cent range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have said all along that I believe every club should try and strengthen their squads in the transfer windows. I also believe that the summer window is the most important of the two. That said for reasons unknown to me and I suspect to every one who posts on here it didn't happen. 

For me, that is now history and, as the saying goes, 'it is no use crying over spilt milk'. So for me, I am trying to get over it and get on with life keeping my fingers crossed. I don't see any post mortem will either change things nor be useful as a lesson in the future. 

Que serra, serra.

COYS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Neophyte said:

What peripheral squad players do we have for whom we can get this 75 million?

Add 150 million to the debt? Seriously?

Lorente (6m). N'Koudon (12m). Janssen(15m). Onomah (9m). Sissoko (20m) Dembele (15m) Aurier (20m) Wanyama (20m) (C-Vikers (9m) all or any combination of these players I have suggested would recoup 70+mill of any additional 150m investment.

An yes! Absolutely seriously! With a net spend of 25m over these past 4-5 years for a multi-billion£ company, if we are serious (which I now believe we are not) about becoming a permanent top 4 and European side befitting a state of the art 63,000 seater stadium, then continue to push for it even if it means having a net spend of minus 100+ mill after Poch's 4-5 year tenure especially as we have got this far on a relative budget!

Its about the glory! It is beyond me why any fan concerns themselves with the books!!!

Seriously! What does it matter if it takes us 3 years instead of 12 months to balance them!! Plus by my amature accounting, we would have a greater chance of not only balancing them but seeing them show a profit long-term if only Enic had a pair and truly believed in Poch!

I will ask you Neophyte! Are you a Spurs shareholder? If not why are you so concerned for us to be in the Black! Is mediocre and a nice looking balance sheet more important to you, than a greater chance of progression and glory and running in the Red for longer than we may have liked?

If that is the case my friend, then no matter your reply, I will never understand that at this stage of our history!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roycey,

i often agree with you which was not the case a year or two ago.

Your opinion about the Club finances is spot on. Spurs due to a decent run in Europe had unexpected high profits last season, irrespective of unseen (????) New Ground problems Management should not have gambled with the Spurs hard won future.

If we lose 2 or 3 games watch how quickly the mood will change.

The Top 7 in the premiership are beginning to close up.....just saying!!

and now the Manager is talking about January signings. If we can't get Grealish for 100 M who will be our target???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×