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Tonto911

The Poch

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1 hour ago, Neophyte said:

I still believe.

I think the club has been unable to do the things Poch wanted over the last 2 years, for a number of reasons not of Poch's making, most perhaps even unavoidable by the club. For this reason, and due to the amazing CL run Poch lead the team on, I think he and Levy have an understanding and patience will be shown.

Honestly, all purely conjecture on my part but conjecture born of watching these two work together for 5 years now.

Levy will already be working behind the scenes to replace poch. He owes pochettino nothing. He owes the Tottenham faithful a team to fit the stadium. Pochettino is a dead man walking. Wether you like it or not your wrong, he’s on borrowed time and levy will pull the trigger January the latest when he realises there’s no chance of improvement. 

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8 minutes ago, Garyjones1271 said:

That’s hilarious. He took a decent but  not great Liverpool to within a  slip(Steve Gerard) against Chelsea from winning the premier league then got sacked when they were 7th.

forget Scottish football he then returned to the premier league and in the time he’s been with Leicester is the 2nd/3rd best team in England playing brilliant football. He’s done enough in my opinion to be the stand out candidate to re-build our club in exactly the same way he’s taken Leicester into the top 3. Remember poch has had nearly 6 years to win something and we now sitting in the bottom half of the table.

I remember the "slip" but he still hasn't won anything 

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1 hour ago, Neophyte said:

I still believe.

I think the club has been unable to do the things Poch wanted over the last 2 years, for a number of reasons not of Poch's making, most perhaps even unavoidable by the club. For this reason, and due to the amazing CL run Poch lead the team on, I think he and Levy have an understanding and patience will be shown.

Honestly, all purely conjecture on my part but conjecture born of watching these two work together for 5 years now.

This is what I believed and still wish for, but what I'm seeing on the pitch and previous uncharacteristic comments from Poch has now got my faith waning!

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33 minutes ago, Garyjones1271 said:

Levy will already be working behind the scenes to replace poch. He owes pochettino nothing. He owes the Tottenham faithful a team to fit the stadium. Pochettino is a dead man walking. Wether you like it or not your wrong, he’s on borrowed time and levy will pull the trigger January the latest when he realises there’s no chance of improvement. 

Unless you have the boardroom bugged, you don't know any more than I do. Whether you like it or not.

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If nothing happens (manager movements) by Xmas, I believe nothing will happen at all and we will see Poch at The Lane for another few years to come! Meaning my feeling is if something is gonna happen, it will happen very soon and very quickly or not at all!

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Royce,you'll still be able to send Poch a Christmas card addressed to Tottenham for quite a few years to come.

He's going nowhere in my opinion.

As Neophyte has said all this talk of Poch going is purely conjecture.

Thanks for the get well soon card and grapes.The postman put them through the letterbox and as Dianne walked in she squashed the lot.

Women.....aghhhhh

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4 hours ago, stanmac said:

 

Rogers........he's won nothing in England,and was a little bit lucky in Scotland as Rangers were out of contention due to being relegated.

Even at Liverpool who had a vastly bigger War Chest than most clubs he won nothing.

His best runs have always been when his side wasn't involved in European competition too.

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4 hours ago, Neophyte said:

I still believe.

I think the club has been unable to do the things Poch wanted over the last 2 years, for a number of reasons not of Poch's making, most perhaps even unavoidable by the club. For this reason, and due to the amazing CL run Poch lead the team on, I think he and Levy have an understanding and patience will be shown.

Honestly, all purely conjecture on my part but conjecture born of watching these two work together for 5 years now.

I like your thinking, as usual, but even I am having my doubts. I remember when he let Walker go, and moved Townsend on, I thought he was stronger then than he has been recently.

I wonder if Etriksen has been rather devious since his substitute appearance against aston Villa which turned that game into a win for us, although from memory yhe didn't actually get involved with goals, NDombele cretaed and scored his, and Lamela assisted The kane for the other two.....

I thought after the draw with woolwich that Eriksen was back on board, but sadly not...

As others have said, it's a messy situation, but we have to play our way out of it.

I really don't see the attraction of Allegri, and definitely not the recently sacked Bayern manager, neither of them will have time to adjust to the premier league to make the 

significant improvements required for a run to the top 4. I am happy to be proved wrong DL again.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Neophyte said:

Unless you have the boardroom bugged, you don't know any more than I do. Whether you like it or not.

I'd be more interested in finding out if the players are happy or not, I was very impressed with the post match interview given by Dele yesterday.

 

 

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4 hours ago, stanmac said:

 

Royce,you'll still be able to send Poch a Christmas card addressed to Tottenham for quite a few years to come.

He's going nowhere in my opinion.

As Neophyte has said all this talk of Poch going is purely conjecture.

Thanks for the get well soon card and grapes.The postman put them through the letterbox and as Dianne walked in she squashed the lot.

Women.....aghhhhh

I truly hope so Stan!

Can't take credit for the card and grapes/wine:) mate but I'm pleased to be included by those that sorted that!

 

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11 hours ago, Neophyte said:

Unless you have the boardroom bugged, you don't know any more than I do. Whether you like it or not.

I do know there’s no chances of improvement. And correct we are all guessing as to what goes on in  the boardroom.

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5 hours ago, Garyjones1271 said:

I do know there’s no chances of improvement. And correct we are all guessing as to what goes on in  the boardroom.

There, we will have to agree to disagree, because I know that there is always a chance.

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15 hours ago, Tonto911 said:

I like your thinking, as usual, but even I am having my doubts. I remember when he let Walker go, and moved Townsend on, I thought he was stronger then than he has been recently.

I wonder if Etriksen has been rather devious since his substitute appearance against aston Villa which turned that game into a win for us, although from memory yhe didn't actually get involved with goals, NDombele cretaed and scored his, and Lamela assisted The kane for the other two.....

I thought after the draw with woolwich that Eriksen was back on board, but sadly not...

As others have said, it's a messy situation, but we have to play our way out of it.

I really don't see the attraction of Allegri, and definitely not the recently sacked Bayern manager, neither of them will have time to adjust to the premier league to make the 

significant improvements required for a run to the top 4. I am happy to be proved wrong DL again.

 

 

As to the future, whether we live in hope or fear, what is likely to happen is purely conjecture. Looking at the history of Poch's tenure and trying to use that as a guide raises mixed results. Up until this year, everything seemed to be progressing well and was encouraging in our hopes of becoming a regular top European club. We now have a stadium that befits a top club. We are returning to a situation where decent money appears to be available to encourage top players to stay and top players wanting to join us. The horizon looked hopeful.

However, this year (2019) inexplicably (and that is the real problem as it is difficult to come up with answers to deal with it), our little world fell apart. With what I take from the posts on here, those who remain a Poch supporter base their argument on the good years when the club was moving forward. Those who have now lost faith that Poch really can turn the situation around and to get us back on track are basing their views on this year in general and this seasons results in particular.

I, for my part, have lost confidence based partly on the fact that we have under performed without showing any signs of putting it right for 10+ months and mainly on this season which has, if I am honest, been woeful. It appears to me there have been other factors involved and not just how the manager has dealt with it. That said, I still feel that the responsibility of getting the team to plays to it's potential falls almost entirely on the manager/coach (whatever you want to call him).

I would love for Poch to be part of the solution as I hold him in the highest esteem for all he has achieved. Sadly I no longer have faith that he can do it. That doesn't mean I am right and those who want to keep him are wrong. He could leave and then become as good as the very best, or he could leave and just remain a very good league manager for those teams that just don't make it. For me the politest way to discuss this situation when there is no meeting of minds is to agree to differ rather than to keep trying to hammer home one's opinion.

What ever the outcome, for me the only important thing is that those who run the club get it right and we get back on track chasing our goal of returning to the Glory, Glory days.

COYS

 

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10 minutes ago, Jamesinashby said:

I, for my part, have lost confidence based partly on the fact that we have under performed without showing any signs of putting it right for 10+ months and mainly on this season which has, if I am honest, been woeful. 

This statement is my problem with all the woe and angst. It completely discounts anything positive that happened during this time.

- A depleted Spurs advanced to the League Cup Semi, only losing away on penalties. The same result the year previous would have seen Spurs through to the Final. Eriksen made his PK that day, btw, and Lucas was the miss that sent Spurs out.

- Spurs played Liverpool off the pitch at Anfield, losing only on a freak OG by Alderweireld that he could do nothing about.

- Spurs advanced past Borussia Dortmund (4-0), Man City (4-4 away goals), Ajax (3-3 away goals) to reach the CL Final. Again, with a depleted squad.

- Away draws this season with Arsenal and Man City, where both of those fixtures were losses last season.

To find nothing good in the last 10 months is to ignore all of this, not just seeing the glass as half-empty but rather as completely empty. No, I'm not thrilled with our run of form in the PL, specifically the away form, but I refuse to let that detract from what Spurs managed to do well. 

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Personally I want Eddie Howe to take over.

- No learning curve. He knows English football. 

- Stability. If successful, he is likely to manage the club for the long time.

- Transfer budget. Tight budget is not a problem for him.

- English manager, English players. Howe is good at finding players. There are plenty of good players in England.

- I can see him fix problems in Bournemouth team over the years. Begovic is a poor GK signing. He fixed that problem with Ramsdale. Their CB aren't that good. He brought Ake in. 

I think joining a bigger club is the logical next step for Howe in his career.

He doesn't have a long term contract with Bournemouth. If Poch takes another job (knowing that his job is at risk), we save a lot of compensation.

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I wasn't deliberately denying there hadn't been any good things, Neo. I didn't refer to them as all the good things that happened in effect were irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. I was simply referring to two differing points of view regarding whether Poch should go or stay, possibly why those stances had been arrived at and that it seemed pointless to me for each side to keep hammering their point home when it was highly unlikely for one side to win the other over.

I fully accept there have been good performances, but for me the have been infrequent and doesn't provide me with proof that from tomorrow we will return to regularly winning and this slump will be over and the season will end on a high. 

I would like to make it clear I am in no way slagging Poch off and neither am I calling him a poor manager. As I said before, I hold him in high esteem for all he has achieved with Spurs. For me personally, I just think that for whatever reason we find ourselves in this position, I feel we need another manager. It is just a point of view. That doesn't mean I'm saying I am right and I hope others appreciate it is only opinion. Neither do I mean that Poch supporters are wrong, they just see the sit differently to me.

I hope this corrects any misapprehension I may have inferred to unintentionally.

COYS

 

 

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Then my apologies, James.

I just keep reading people say 10 months of bad results like that is all we have had. I guess that fits the narrative those that want Poch out need but it isn't representative of everything these last 10 months have provided. Spurs managed to get to a match played in by less than 2 dozen sides over the last 3 decades. In the last 15 years, that number has dropped considerably, with only a dozen sides making the final and then only from 4 different countries. Past champions like Red Star Brigade, tomorrow's opponent and the champion of Europe in 1991, would now count themselves lucky to advance past the group stage. Yet many Spurs supporters gloss over the match in June like it was nothing because it doesn't support their argument. 

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14 minutes ago, Neophyte said:

Then my apologies, James.

I just keep reading people say 10 months of bad results like that is all we have had. I guess that fits the narrative those that want Poch out need but it isn't representative of everything these last 10 months have provided. Spurs managed to get to a match played in by less than 2 dozen sides over the last 3 decades. In the last 15 years that number has dropped considerably, with only a dozen sides making the final and then only from 4 different countries. Past champions like Red Star Brigade, tomorrow's opponent and the champion of Europe in 1991, would now count themselves lucky to advance past the group stage. Yet many Spurs supporters gloss of the match in June like it was nothing, because it doesn't support their argument. 

I totally agree with you. Poch has done wonders  and has also not had the rub of the green at times which has had made the statistics against him worse (the ridiculous VAR decision ruling out Spurs second goal against Leicester for example). Having raised a point in mitigation for Poch, I do so to introduce fairness rather than make excuses for him. He deserves credit for all he has achieved and not vilification. 

For me however, I am concerned that we are not seeing evidence to support the view he is the right man to pull us out of the situation we are in. To do that I want to see a continuous run of results. I would love that to happen and be quite happy to change my views. You know me - on and off the fence so many times it led to a string of splinters in my arse jokes.  

COYS

 

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Argh!! The realists currently unhappy with the Clubs League Position, Game Performance, Players non developement , Players Loss of Form, Players Contract Fiasco and Inefficient Transfer In/Out System are well aware of the recent History and mostly acknowledge POCH did achieve some progress with a coule of good purchases and some luck in the academy.

I don't know how much luck there was in reaching the European Cup Final but my feeling is we used it all up to get there.

The past is the past. Look at the points I have raised above. Things ain't going well and week on week are not improving. 

Poch wont be sacked but if he can't sort this mess out he will have to walk before his reputation is in tatters.

He done a good job....he is no longer doing a good job. End OF...

Of course if you think POCH is capable of inspiring this current bunch of players to Win 8 out 10 games for the rest of the season which is what they need to do maintain previous progress we will just have to wait week after painful week.....

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I agree that Poch has to go.  I also agree that he has done wonders in the past and I don’t enjoys saying that he has to go.  But the fact remains that if you remove the run to the Champions League Final, the last 10 months have been woeful.  Even the staunchest supporter of Poch has to see that we had some magical moments and or lucky decisions go our way to get to said Final.  My issue is that performances have been poor, no style no effort no substance and that includes the CL Final.  Spurs record in 2019 is more than enough to justify a sacking, even  for a mid table club with aspirations to break into the top 6.   For Spurs that sacking is past due and if not for the £30m issue would have been done weeks ago 

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4 hours ago, Jamesinashby said:

For me the politest way to discuss this situation when there is no meeting of minds is to agree to differ rather than to keep trying to hammer home one's opinion.

'Hammering home one's opinion' and repeating the same point over and over again is inevitable for certain members if there's not a meeting of the minds. As you and I have discussed. While there's a The Poch thread and he's not pleasing a lot of members it's Groundhog day on here. 

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17 minutes ago, Paxton said:

'Hammering home one's opinion' and repeating the same point over and over again is inevitable for certain members if there's not a meeting of the minds. As you and I have discussed. While there's a The Poch thread and he's not pleasing a lot of members it's Groundhog day on here. 

Forum.....Without Opinion there is no forum....

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