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Poch sacked

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34 minutes ago, Garyjones1271 said:

Good point about the players but when I analyse our situation especially defensive this is my conclusion. Toby and jan have been dreadful but there still both at an age where they have at least 1-2 good seasons left. Sessegnon is a definite starter for me at left back and right back has to be foyth or mourinho may well convert sissoko as he offers little in midfield. I see dier being immediately back in front of the back 4. I have a feeling this will be the team 

Gazzaniga 

sissoko or foyth

toby

jan

sessegnon or rose

dier

winks

ndombele

alli

son 

kane

 

like you ive also cringed at watching us play this shit negative slow football, Jose will hopefully get us defending set pieces better. And defending better in general. I think he will look to son for pace till January then I see a big signing maybe Kingsley Coman. We certainly can’t be any worse than the last 25 games can we?

And another class winger along with Coman. Think it was Cloughie ,who when asked about tactics, said ‘ simple give it to the winger and tell him to beat the full back.’

Poch’s width always came from the fullbacks. Unfortunately you need the best full backs in the world for that philosophy. In my opinion fullbacks are defenders first and foremost 

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3 hours ago, Jamesinashby said:

He's good at winning cups and if he could get us some silverware I shall be more than happy  with that.

COYZ

really? prefer a FA Cup win , 6 games, maybe only 2 V Premier League opposition ,  versus 38 games (OK 26 remaining) with majority of wins.  Im top 4 all day not cos of the CL tho I do love that but cos it means majority of 38 games throughout the season going very well,  we always used to be a cup team, id hate us to go back to that just so we can WIN something , trophies are over rated you have to give them back every year , consistency over whole seasons, season in season out , oh thats what we did have ..........    silly me , Levy must want a nice shiny trophy to wank into .  (Im probably misreading your post mate just letting off steam ) 

If the players suddenly start performing as they did last season now then theyre a bunch of c8nts , no better than Leicester and chelsea were 

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1 hour ago, Mihai said:

Can anyone here please explain me how levy did not help pochetino? Ffs, we spent 60m for dembele and 50m for lo celso, another 20m for sessegnon! More than 100m this summer. We played better withour spendings. :)

a- two of them have hardly played    b-  we needed to invest two and three seasons ago not this summer   but instead Levy had to spend on some sprinkler safety system that had been left our the plans by Levys cost cutting excercise that as usual backfired .  I still respect your views though 

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29 minutes ago, Salopspur said:

And another class winger along with Coman. Think it was Cloughie ,who when asked about tactics, said ‘ simple give it to the winger and tell him to beat the full back.’

Poch’s width always came from the fullbacks. Unfortunately you need the best full backs in the world for that philosophy. In my opinion fullbacks are defenders first and foremost 

Agreed, I managed a decent Sunday team and my philosophy was if we don’t concede we won’t lose so I played 3 centre backs 2 big stoppers and a clever sweeper behind them with 2 quick full backs that weren’t allowed to cross the half way line, 3 centre midfielders and 2 up front, when we lost the ball my instructions were clear 11 men behind the ball at all times then break with the 5 forward players. I didn’t have quick wingers so I opted for quality in the middle of the park with the reassurance of 5 defenders at all times. We never got caught out on the break.

tottenham desperately need at least 1 hopefully 2 rapid wide men. Like you said.

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10 minutes ago, Garyjones1271 said:

Agreed, I managed a decent Sunday team and my philosophy was if we don’t concede we won’t lose so I played 3 centre backs 2 big stoppers and a clever sweeper behind them with 2 quick full backs that weren’t allowed to cross the half way line, 3 centre midfielders and 2 up front, when we lost the ball my instructions were clear 11 men behind the ball at all times then break with the 5 forward players. I didn’t have quick wingers so I opted for quality in the middle of the park with the reassurance of 5 defenders at all times. We never got caught out on the break.

tottenham desperately need at least 1 hopefully 2 rapid wide men. Like you said.

Gary in for one of Jose's coaches....simples 

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11 minutes ago, Audere Est Facere said:

really? prefer a FA Cup win , 6 games, maybe only 2 V Premier League opposition ,  versus 38 games (OK 26 remaining) with majority of wins.  Im top 4 all day not cos of the CL tho I do love that but cos it means majority of 38 games throughout the season going very well,  we always used to be a cup team, id hate us to go back to that just so we can WIN something , trophies are over rated you have to give them back every year , consistency over whole seasons, season in season out , oh thats what we did have ..........    silly me , Levy must want a nice shiny trophy to wank into .  (Im probably misreading your post mate just letting off steam ) 

If the players suddenly start performing as they did last season now then theyre a bunch of c8nts , no better than Leicester and chelsea were 

You didn't misread it, I explained my feelings badly. I struggle to to have confidence that the 'chosen one' can turn this season around to get us into a top 4 place. I now his pre Man Utd record is fantastic. I also accept that it is not unknown to see a 'new manager' bounce. However, so many of these players have been under performing and seem so low in confidence, I don't think think there is a magic wand that can be waved to suddenly transform them back to how they were 11 months ago. Add to that they have to learn how to play to Jose's way,  which I feel can't be learned with a couple of training ground sessions. 

I was just being pragmatic in my normal cautious manner in trying to say I wouldn't hold it against Mourhino if we failed to reach top 4. If he could win us a cup this year it would be nice as I think it would help us to retain players at the end of the season and help to attract in half decent players to set us up for next season. 

 I agree with you that, after those 4 good seasons with Poch, I no longer have my hopes set on a domestic cup, but I want to see us making serious challenges for the EPL title and the CL. But as the momentum which got us to the cusp of becoming a genuine top European club has been seriously set back, I will just have to be patient and, for the moment, settle for a minor cup.

I know we give trophies back, but it is winning them regularly that earns the praise and reputations of your Liverpool's, Utd', Chelsea's, City's, Barcelona's, Real Madrid's etc. It is consistency that brings trophies.

That is just how I look at things and what I want. 

COYS

 

 

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4 hours ago, Garyjones1271 said:

I just watched his first interview and I am 48 with goosebumps. He speaks so clearly and he will get his way over to the players immediately. I believe we are going places. Hold onto your hats boys we are about to make the next step. My love for Tottenham is back tenfold 

Hahaha... I love your optimism, mate! 

You are right, Mou has something to prove and we can profit from that. This is exactly what I think as well. He will be eager and more than ambitious to put his reputation straight. And he knows, if he fails his next stop will probably be the national side of Angola, if any! 

He is unpredictable to me. To me he was always an opportunist. As you said, he chose the money over us in the past. He can initiate the change, thats for sure, but is it in our all interest? I don't want him to use our team as an "ego project" who leaves in the very first minute after he left our club into shambles or leaves when a "bigger" club is tempting him with more money? And according to Enic and the prickhead, money will always be an issue. All above for new signings. Can he bring us on track again without spending a fortune? Times have changed on the transfer market and his reputation suffered to lure players to the club only because of his name!

He is a bad ass and thats why many supporters are torn, but that doesn't necessary mean its a bad thing. He can influence the players and change their attitude, but we all witnessed what happens when players boycott him (Man Utd). I give him credit for what he reached, but tbh when he was in charge of Porto the only thing he needed to do is to prepare the squad for the CL, cause there is no competition in the portuguese League. But to be fair to him, the scouting under Mou was great. The success of Inter is coupled with the Serie A scandals and sanctions against Juve, Milan, Fiorentina, Naples and many more. At Chelsea, Real and Manchester he had the financial carnival license and could sign who ever he wanted at any cost. I doubt he will have the same freedom under Levy. I'm really keen to see how Mou will react to Levys negotiation techniques. Will it frustrates him? I think it will!

From the outside Mou seems to be the better manager who has won trophies and who has more up the sleeve than Poch, but was Poch really given the best support? What would have happened when Poch could have signed the players he really wanted and not the pile of shit we got because of Levys transfer policy ("I'm a coach not a manager")? We don't know. Maybe Poch was involved in the signings. Sissoko for sure. Thats why the Frenchman is still at the club. 

We also don't know what really happened behind the curtain. Did Verts really shagged Eriksens missus? Or was Verts shagging Eriksen and Harry caught them accidental in the locker rooms? We don't know. But what I know is, seeing the both in a sexual intercourse is traumatizing. Anyway, we shouldn't fear from thinking big and getting big and become big and maybe Poch hasn't got what it needs to bring us to the top. The title was within the reach but in the end we never made it! 

Mou definitely has the special something and the mentality to reach that goal, but the question is can he do it again? Cause to me it is a repetition of circumstances and reminds me of AVB's era. I promised myself I will never trust a hype again. The disappointments were to big, Obama, Jackson, Cosby, Stallone and Dinki the clown. I'll give Mou a chance but he must convince me first to trust him fully! 

I will have a cup of tea and wait and see

Come on you...

Say WHAT! 

 

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I watched the Interview with Toby and I also thought he struggled to hide a wry grin numerous times.  Proof will be if he or the other two now sign....

reset, restart and off we go v the Pikeys.

so intrigued to see the 11 that start and the bench.  
 

poch needed to go and he is gone.  Class man and I will always remember what he did for us up until last January.  That’s when he left us in reality.  
 

not chuffed with Jose but he is here so I’m behind him 100% for the time being.  New dawn is here so let’s see where it takes us...

 

COYS

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9 hours ago, Spurfect said:

Hahaha... I love your optimism, mate! 

You are right, Mou has something to prove and we can profit from that. This is exactly what I think as well. He will be eager and more than ambitious to put his reputation straight. And he knows, if he fails his next stop will probably be the national side of Angola, if any! 

He is unpredictable to me. To me he was always an opportunist. As you said, he chose the money over us in the past. He can initiate the change, thats for sure, but is it in our all interest? I don't want him to use our team as an "ego project" who leaves in the very first minute after he left our club into shambles or leaves when a "bigger" club is tempting him with more money? And according to Enic and the prickhead, money will always be an issue. All above for new signings. Can he bring us on track again without spending a fortune? Times have changed on the transfer market and his reputation suffered to lure players to the club only because of his name!

He is a bad ass and thats why many supporters are torn, but that doesn't necessary mean its a bad thing. He can influence the players and change their attitude, but we all witnessed what happens when players boycott him (Man Utd). I give him credit for what he reached, but tbh when he was in charge of Porto the only thing he needed to do is to prepare the squad for the CL, cause there is no competition in the portuguese League. But to be fair to him, the scouting under Mou was great. The success of Inter is coupled with the Serie A scandals and sanctions against Juve, Milan, Fiorentina, Naples and many more. At Chelsea, Real and Manchester he had the financial carnival license and could sign who ever he wanted at any cost. I doubt he will have the same freedom under Levy. I'm really keen to see how Mou will react to Levys negotiation techniques. Will it frustrates him? I think it will!

From the outside Mou seems to be the better manager who has won trophies and who has more up the sleeve than Poch, but was Poch really given the best support? What would have happened when Poch could have signed the players he really wanted and not the pile of shit we got because of Levys transfer policy ("I'm a coach not a manager")? We don't know. Maybe Poch was involved in the signings. Sissoko for sure. Thats why the Frenchman is still at the club. 

We also don't know what really happened behind the curtain. Did Verts really shagged Eriksens missus? Or was Verts shagging Eriksen and Harry caught them accidental in the locker rooms? We don't know. But what I know is, seeing the both in a sexual intercourse is traumatizing. Anyway, we shouldn't fear from thinking big and getting big and become big and maybe Poch hasn't got what it needs to bring us to the top. The title was within the reach but in the end we never made it! 

Mou definitely has the special something and the mentality to reach that goal, but the question is can he do it again? Cause to me it is a repetition of circumstances and reminds me of AVB's era. I promised myself I will never trust a hype again. The disappointments were to big, Obama, Jackson, Cosby, Stallone and Dinki the clown. I'll give Mou a chance but he must convince me first to trust him fully! 

I will have a cup of tea and wait and see

Come on you...

Say WHAT! 

 

Brilliantly written with exceptional knowledge as always spurfect.

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Here is a point that interests me. During the 5 years I have been using this forum, a perceived problem that has held the club back from achieving greater success has been Daniel Levy's control/interference with transfers and wages. He has consistently come under a lot of stick, even the the point of being described as incompetent. He is often blamed ahead of Poch as being behind the failures on the field because of not buying the players Poch wanted.

Along comes the special one, and for many this guarantees the success being craved for. Does this mean that miraculously DL has become a changed man and will hand over a free rein to M? Alternatively, if he doesn't, can M somehow get the current squad back to punching above it's weight and soaring up the table?

We all saw how difficult it was in the last window to get rid of those not wanted and to buy game changing talent to strengthen the squad. It just never happened. Can anyone clearly explain exactly what has changed and how it will be implemented without simply glorifying the Special One's past achievements - more what changes he will implement to bring success.

COYS

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42 minutes ago, Jamesinashby said:

Here is a point that interests me. During the 5 years I have been using this forum, a perceived problem that has held the club back from achieving greater success has been Daniel Levy's control/interference with transfers and wages. He has consistently come under a lot of stick, even the the point of being described as incompetent. He is often blamed ahead of Poch as being behind the failures on the field because of not buying the players Poch wanted.

Along comes the special one, and for many this guarantees the success being craved for. Does this mean that miraculously DL has become a changed man and will hand over a free rein to M? Alternatively, if he doesn't, can M somehow get the current squad back to punching above it's weight and soaring up the table?

We all saw how difficult it was in the last window to get rid of those not wanted and to buy game changing talent to strengthen the squad. It just never happened. Can anyone clearly explain exactly what has changed and how it will be implemented without simply glorifying the Special One's past achievements - more what changes he will implement to bring success.

COYS

I’ll give you my opinion on this James. I see it like this levy is the best chairman in the premier league, he has put finance before success. He built the best stadium in the world and he knows he has to fill it every game,  levy made it clear that he gave poch the signings this summer poch wanted and poch has failed with them. 
jose would be clear from the off to levy, there would be no arse kissing no telling him what he wants to hear and levy now has no other choice to back jose 100%.  
he sacked poch and if this goes wrong levy will be held accountable. I also don’t believe levy had 100% trust in poch when it comes to transfers, there are far more failings than successes in my opinion. 
the key to this is simple, Jose has been planning this since may, he has assembled a team ready to take Tottenham to a level they have never been at and he would of sold this  to levy, the final piece of the jigsaw is the greatest sporting director/scout in world football Luis campos coming. Jose has got his perfect back room team at his perfect club.

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1 hour ago, Jamesinashby said:

Here is a point that interests me. During the 5 years I have been using this forum, a perceived problem that has held the club back from achieving greater success has been Daniel Levy's control/interference with transfers and wages. He has consistently come under a lot of stick, even the the point of being described as incompetent. He is often blamed ahead of Poch as being behind the failures on the field because of not buying the players Poch wanted.

Along comes the special one, and for many this guarantees the success being craved for. Does this mean that miraculously DL has become a changed man and will hand over a free rein to M? Alternatively, if he doesn't, can M somehow get the current squad back to punching above it's weight and soaring up the table?

We all saw how difficult it was in the last window to get rid of those not wanted and to buy game changing talent to strengthen the squad. It just never happened. Can anyone clearly explain exactly what has changed and how it will be implemented without simply glorifying the Special One's past achievements - more what changes he will implement to bring success.

COYS

This is what I mean! We can't compare AVB with Mou, cause AVB is just a spineless ass licker (sorry for my words), but the actual situation reminds me of the past, when AVB was handed a big budget to rebuild a new team and we all know how that turned out. Keeping players with new contracts, the scouting and new transfers will be crucial and we all know Levy's transfer policy. You need to put your trust in a manager, cause it needs time to rebuild, but Mou was signed to save us from dropping points and to repair what was already caused. So the pressure will be higher on him, although in his situation he can rely on a working and well-rehearsed team.  

There are not many managers with the tactical knowledge Mou has, so I give him credit for that, but nevertheless he must not overlook the upheaval, the generation change that it needs, not to end like other clubs who haven't reacted on time in recent years (Real, Barca, Bayern...). It may not affect them in their leagues, but internationally they look shit. In the Prem it was Arsenal and Chelsea and we profit from that. But know it have caught up us, thats why this radical change in form of Poch's sacking, was only a matter of time. It was also necessary cause Levy want to keep the want-aways and that is only possible with a big player, Mou (still) is. (we'll see)

The prickhead is smart, but I prefer the term sneaky. Its not that he wants to keep 'em because of his human and kind character, NO - its more because he would get furious loosing Verts, Tobey and Eriksen without making cash on them. 

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25 minutes ago, Garyjones1271 said:

I’ll give you my opinion on this James. I see it like this levy is the best chairman in the premier league, he has put finance before success. He built the best stadium in the world and he knows he has to fill it every game,  levy made it clear that he gave poch the signings this summer poch wanted and poch has failed with them. 
jose would be clear from the off to levy, there would be no arse kissing no telling him what he wants to hear and levy now has no other choice to back jose 100%.  
he sacked poch and if this goes wrong levy will be held accountable. I also don’t believe levy had 100% trust in poch when it comes to transfers, there are far more failings than successes in my opinion. 
the key to this is simple, Jose has been planning this since may, he has assembled a team ready to take Tottenham to a level they have never been at and he would of sold this  to levy, the final piece of the jigsaw is the greatest sporting director/scout in world football Luis campos coming. Jose has got his perfect back room team at his perfect club.

Levy is a great buisnessman no doubt, but Poch hasn't got his full support. Why wasn't Poch given the players he wanted 2 years ago, when it was necessary to invest? So, its not fair to say Poch failed, cause during the time of financial restrictions he made the best out of the situation and only god knows what we could have achieved, when we had signed additional players who had strengthened the team in proper time.

We dont know how far Poch was involved into the signings. We also don't know if the players were second, third or fourth guessing as a result of Levys transfer policy. But one is for sure, Sissoko was on Poch wish list and that was a big failure, cause according to my knowing we could also have Wijnaldum (cheaper btw), but unfortunatelly he hasn't scored a goal at the Euros as Sissoko did. In fact none of the orange scored in the Euros. Guess because they havent made it to the Euros!

Anyway, I give you right, the scouting and the signings under Poch were shite! And Im really looking forward to see if Campos can work some magic! Great news that are. Halleluja!!!

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2 hours ago, Spurfect said:

Levy is a great buisnessman no doubt, but Poch hasn't got his full support. Why wasn't Poch given the players he wanted 2 years ago, when it was necessary to invest? So, its not fair to say Poch failed, cause during the time of financial restrictions he made the best out of the situation and only god knows what we could have achieved, when we had signed additional players who had strengthened the team in proper time.

We dont know how far Poch was involved into the signings. We also don't know if the players were second, third or fourth guessing as a result of Levys transfer policy. But one is for sure, Sissoko was on Poch wish list and that was a big failure, cause according to my knowing we could also have Wijnaldum (cheaper btw), but unfortunatelly he hasn't scored a goal at the Euros as Sissoko did. In fact none of the orange scored in the Euros. Guess because they havent made it to the Euros!

Anyway, I give you right, the scouting and the signings under Poch were shite! And Im really looking forward to see if Campos can work some magic! Great news that are. Halleluja!!!

I have believed for a couple of years (and will continue to believe until evidence to the contrary is presented) that the club either lacked the funds to invest 2 years ago due to the stadium overruns or was concerned that spending the funds might jeopardize the stadium should the overruns continue, so there really wasn't a way to freshen the squad as Poch wanted in 2018.

After reading this article in ESPN yesterday, I also think our transfer policy, since Mitchell left, has been a bigger shambles than anyone realized. The third or fourth section of the article details the lack of communication between Poch and Levy without Mitchell. It also talks about Levy's indecisiveness in moving on established players who either wanted out or were surplus to Poch's needs. Honestly a fascinating read with the feel of some investigation into the club rather than idle speculation designed to drive click-throughs. It was a group effort by several of the most senior football writers at ESPN.

There is also an interesting supposition at the end of the article that ENIC is now considering the idea of selling what they have built and the hiring of such a high profile manager in Mou will push the final price tag on the club just that much higher.

All fascinating stuff.

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So it seems that what many suspected is indeed true.  Pochettino lost the relationship with Levy, wanted to leave yet would not fall on his sword.  The players, at least a percentage of them had lost faith in him and the performances suffered.  I have said before and I will say it again, Pochettino's biggest fault is his stubbornness.  

Over to you Jose.  Dig us out. 

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1 hour ago, Neophyte said:

I have believed for a couple of years (and will continue to believe until evidence to the contrary is presented) that the club either lacked the funds to invest 2 years ago due to the stadium overruns or was concerned that spending the funds might jeopardize the stadium should the overruns continue, so there really wasn't a way to freshen the squad as Poch wanted in 2018.

After reading this article in ESPN yesterday, I also think our transfer policy, since Mitchell left, has been a bigger shambles than anyone realized. The third or fourth section of the article details the lack of communication between Poch and Levy without Mitchell. It also talks about Levy's indecisiveness in moving on established players who either wanted out or were surplus to Poch's needs. Honestly a fascinating read with the feel of some investigation into the club rather than idle speculation designed to drive click-throughs. It was a group effort by several of the most senior football writers at ESPN.

There is also an interesting supposition at the end of the article that ENIC is now considering the idea of selling what they have built and the hiring of such a high profile manager in Mou will push the final price tag on the club just that much higher.

All fascinating stuff.

That's pretty much how I have seen it regarding Levy, hence my post looking for others opinions on how will Mourhino circumnavigate these problems if, in fact, they exist. If nothing else the next few weeks are going to be very interesting and give us something to talk about. 

COYS

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Poch and his staff got a huge severance package. Plenty of clubs are willing to take a chance with them. They are not losers in this case.

Had Poch won CL, he may profit from it to jump a bigger club anyway. There is no fairy tale in real life.

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4 minutes ago, Alonso said:

So it seems that what many suspected is indeed true.  Pochettino lost the relationship with Levy, wanted to leave yet would not fall on his sword.  The players, at least a percentage of them had lost faith in him and the performances suffered.  I have said before and I will say it again, Pochettino's biggest fault is his stubbornness.  

Over to you Jose.  Dig us out. 

If you wanted to encapsulate Poch's reason for failing in one word, it is stubbornness. That, however, can be said of pretty much every manager. That probably also applies to a large majority who post on here as no alternative post seem to change their views. As one who is always switching sides or sitting on the fence I rule myself out despite the wife constantly telling me I am the most stubborn sod she's ever met!! LOL

COYS

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anyway sod it, new era, let get off to a great start V the Hammers,  win every game now til end of Feb then see where that takes us , anything else is inexcusable for someone of Joses talents as he has said he has a great squad and doesnt need anyone else, so prove it big man , wins all round or youre buying the donuts 

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Most know my regard for Poch, but the harsh truth is he is now yesterday!

Mourinho is tomorrow and beyond. I was impressed with his first press conference and bought into him. My biggest fear is if we see players like Imbrahimovich, Matic etc. Old stagers who were fantastic players 5-6 years ago but are now just looking for a last chance of glory and 8-10 mill a season. If DL allows this sort of player (don't think he will!) to pull on the Lilywhite then that would be the biggest insult to Poch and as far as I'm concerned, all of us!

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8 hours ago, Royce 71 said:

Most know my regard for Poch, but the harsh truth is he is now yesterday!

Mourinho is tomorrow and beyond. I was impressed with his first press conference and bought into him. My biggest fear is if we see players like Imbrahimovich, Matic etc. Old stagers who were fantastic players 5-6 years ago but are now just looking for a last chance of glory and 8-10 mill a season. If DL allows this sort of player (don't think he will!) to pull on the Lilywhite then that would be the biggest insult to Poch and as far as I'm concerned, all of us!

I agree. I loved Poch and he took us on a great journey, but that is in the past.

I don't like Mourinho and I don't like the way his teams usually play. I also think his teams have always been quite dirty and cynical.

However, the reality is that he is now our manager and deserves our support. He will get mine

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