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Jamesinashby

Can we still consider a top 4 place as realistic?

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I started this thread on the 20th of December when we were lying 5th. At that time there were still lingering hopes of a top 4 finish maybe  being a outside chance. 

I put that 7th place was, on balance, equally possible. After last week's EPL results we are now 9th, a top 4 finish is now an unrealistic pipedream.

I ask the question now, 'is a top 6 finish a realistic hope? Also, if we are not playing in Europe next season having finished mid table - possibly as low as 8th or 9th, how do you see the future for THFC - are there any chinks of light at the end of the tunnel? 

COYS 

 

 

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Of course it is realistic. It drives me nuts when people say otherwise. We are 6 points off 4th with a game in hand and 15 games to go. We had a run of games that took us top and now we are in a slump. Who is to say which reflects our ability? We are 4 points off 6th with a game in hand.

If you think 4th place is a 'pipe dream', why bother?  What's the fucking point of supporting any team? 

I'm not saying we will definitely get 4th, or even that we are favourites to get 4th, or even that we will finish 4th, but to say it is unrealistic is rubbish.

15 games to go and you are already talking about finishing 9th and not getting European football.  I presume you are also predicting losing the Carabo final,  Kane and Son to leave and the stadium to fall down.

I know we all have different opinions, but this kind of attitude gets on my fucking nerves.

Don't worry, we'll soon have 40 points and avoid relegation.

 

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Spurs are lying 9th. To get the 4th spot, it means all 5 of the teams directly above them have to slump while only Spurs are putting a run together to climb over them. I would dearly love that happen but I personally just cannot see that it will. 

There's no way I would stop supporting Spurs simply because they are not doing going to do well enough to achieve 4th place or win trophies. If that was the case, I would have given up supporting them decades ago. 

As you say, we all have different opinions, but I am not going to lose any sleep if others think differently. Just how I see things. At 81, I have long since given up constantly living in hope when, to me, it is unrealistic. 

COYS 

 

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18 hours ago, Cromulentmart said:

Of course it is realistic. It drives me nuts when people say otherwise. We are 6 points off 4th with a game in hand and 15 games to go. We had a run of games that took us top and now we are in a slump. Who is to say which reflects our ability? We are 4 points off 6th with a game in hand.

If you think 4th place is a 'pipe dream', why bother?  What's the fucking point of supporting any team? 

I'm not saying we will definitely get 4th, or even that we are favourites to get 4th, or even that we will finish 4th, but to say it is unrealistic is rubbish.

15 games to go and you are already talking about finishing 9th and not getting European football.  I presume you are also predicting losing the Carabo final,  Kane and Son to leave and the stadium to fall down.

I know we all have different opinions, but this kind of attitude gets on my fucking nerves.

Don't worry, we'll soon have 40 points and avoid relegation.

 

Let's be fair here, it's not really an attitude just another viewpoint of the current situation. I always think someone can have three pairs of glasses on, optimistic, realistic and pessimistic. Your assessment of us being only 6pts off fourth with a game in hand is absolutely true but you do have to also take into account the current league performance trend. On November 29th we had returned to the top of the league after drawing 0-0 at Chelsea and Man City were lying in 10th spot and 6 points behind us. The change in form since then has been dramatic to say the least. They now top the table and we are 17pts behind them.

I agree that someone who had not followed this season's results but just took one look at the league table  would say that Spurs had a good chance of getting a top four spot but you have to take into account our current form. We have West Ham away, Burnley home, Palace home and then Arsenal away. Last Christmas I'd have said that's 12 pts in the bag. Now I'll gladly settle for a draw at the Hammers, two wins and a draw against the Woolwich.

Ignoring your throwaway comment about 40pts and avoiding relegation I fully respect your evaluation of our situation but I can also understand James and his hesitation to adopt a more positive attitude. We are changing team formation and selection in an almost manic attempt to find the right mix, substitutions are sometimes baffling and only Jose knows what will happen regarding certain players getting more game time.

I too believe we have all the ingredients to make a top four spot, turn over City and win the Europa Cup but it is up to Mourinho to ensure he mixes them correctly otherwise we will finish with nothing, Kane and Son will rightly be considering their futures, Bale and Vinicius will return to their parent clubs and Jose will be heading for the exit with his pot of gold intact.

Maybe a decent win over RZ and a win at the London Stadium will be the catalyst to put our season back on track. Everyone in this forum wants the team to do well and win every trophy and title available but supporting the team goes deeper than just that. It's about still cheering them on no matter what league they are playing in or how bad the quality is of the players in the squad. We hope for success but we accept whatever fate has in store and continue to shout COYS because we are genuine supporters and love the club.

So let's allow people to take a different perspective on what's happening and even if we disagree don't ridicule that opinion. Acknowledge and debate it if you wish, that's what this place is all about but never accuse another of not supporting the team just because they don't see the current picture being as rosy as you do.

If we are to challenge then we need a positive change in our 'form'. Find the formation and blend of players that works and stick to it. I believe all of the jigsaw pieces are there but unless Jose puts them together correctly then the picture on the front of the box will not be the one that I can see as still possible.

 

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There are loads of teams that can finish 4th and that’s including teams below us ,,,if we don’t pull our fingers out I.e smash West Ham no draw ,,we look like a sinking ship ,,all it is the 6 draws from winning positions has cost us massively,,,,,,Jose is now doing what he should have done 2 months,,by defending the players rather than kicking them when there down ,,,never wash your laundry in public ,,,terry venables was famous for talking to bob standard squad players and making them believe,,,in private ,,and never started them ,,,bullshit balfels brains,,,and we are talking about football players ,,,not daft ,,,but never gonna be in ya pub quiz side 

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We’ve very little chance of top 4, based on our form of past 2 months that is not something you just flip around. 
I genuinely think some of the players are switching off to Jose’s psychological approach and that leaves is with a very negative team that is wasting all the attacking talent we have in the squad. 
we might nick the Carling cup And I’d take that but I can’t see Kane and son wanting to stay under Jose tbh. 

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17 minutes ago, Dazza1976 said:

We’ve very little chance of top 4, based on our form of past 2 months that is not something you just flip around. 
I genuinely think some of the players are switching off to Jose’s psychological approach and that leaves is with a very negative team that is wasting all the attacking talent we have in the squad. 
we might nick the Carling cup And I’d take that but I can’t see Kane and son wanting to stay under Jose tbh. 

Nice to see you posting and a great assessment of the current situation. Totally agree.

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6 hours ago, Borodin said:

Let's be fair here, it's not really an attitude just another viewpoint of the current situation. I always think someone can have three pairs of glasses on, optimistic, realistic and pessimistic. Your assessment of us being only 6pts off fourth with a game in hand is absolutely true but you do have to also take into account the current league performance trend. On November 29th we had returned to the top of the league after drawing 0-0 at Chelsea and Man City were lying in 10th spot and 6 points behind us. The change in form since then has been dramatic to say the least. They now top the table and we are 17pts behind them.

I agree that someone who had not followed this season's results but just took one look at the league table  would say that Spurs had a good chance of getting a top four spot but you have to take into account our current form. We have West Ham away, Burnley home, Palace home and then Arsenal away. Last Christmas I'd have said that's 12 pts in the bag. Now I'll gladly settle for a draw at the Hammers, two wins and a draw against the Woolwich.

Ignoring your throwaway comment about 40pts and avoiding relegation I fully respect your evaluation of our situation but I can also understand James and his hesitation to adopt a more positive attitude. We are changing team formation and selection in an almost manic attempt to find the right mix, substitutions are sometimes baffling and only Jose knows what will happen regarding certain players getting more game time.

I too believe we have all the ingredients to make a top four spot, turn over City and win the Europa Cup but it is up to Mourinho to ensure he mixes them correctly otherwise we will finish with nothing, Kane and Son will rightly be considering their futures, Bale and Vinicius will return to their parent clubs and Jose will be heading for the exit with his pot of gold intact.

Maybe a decent win over RZ and a win at the London Stadium will be the catalyst to put our season back on track. Everyone in this forum wants the team to do well and win every trophy and title available but supporting the team goes deeper than just that. It's about still cheering them on no matter what league they are playing in or how bad the quality is of the players in the squad. We hope for success but we accept whatever fate has in store and continue to shout COYS because we are genuine supporters and love the club.

So let's allow people to take a different perspective on what's happening and even if we disagree don't ridicule that opinion. Acknowledge and debate it if you wish, that's what this place is all about but never accuse another of not supporting the team just because they don't see the current picture being as rosy as you do.

If we are to challenge then we need a positive change in our 'form'. Find the formation and blend of players that works and stick to it. I believe all of the jigsaw pieces are there but unless Jose puts them together correctly then the picture on the front of the box will not be the one that I can see as still possible.

 

I completely disagree. I believe it is an attitude rather than a viewpoint.  You actually say as much. As for cheering the team on no matter what ..... how much of that do we see here?  Watch the comments posted during a game (including mine).

I also didn't evaluate our position or even try to, neither did I ridicule that particular point of view. I merely said that it gets on my nerves.

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18 minutes ago, Cromulentmart said:

I completely disagree. I believe it is an attitude rather than a viewpoint.  You actually say as much. As for cheering the team on no matter what ..... how much of that do we see here?  Watch the comments posted during a game (including mine).

I also didn't evaluate our position or even try to, neither did I ridicule that particular point of view. I merely said that it gets on my nerves.

Lots of things annoy us and you have every right to agree or disagree with other people's opinions and views. The secret is to accept the fact that the right to do so exists for everyone and it's better to learn to accept that gracefully rather than let it "get on your nerves".

We'll agree to disagree...but continue to both 'support' Spurs in our own ways.

COYS

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I know that everyone has the same rights here - it's one of the reasons why this is the only forum I use. It's underused, which is a shame, but there are no cliques ..... but I actually prefer not to accept things gracefully - I have enough of that with the wife :4:

 

 

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Jose's current view on the subject :

Mourinho has told talkSPORT: “The same way you lose three matches and go to a bad position, the same way you win three matches and go to a much better position.

“Like it happened last season, let’s keep it going until the end and let’s see what the table will give us. In the end, the table always gives you what you deserve and it’s very premature to think about the definition of the table. People still have matches in hand, and in our case we have played already two matches against Liverpool, two matches against Chelsea, two matches against Manchester City; there are other teams who haven’t played a second game against one of the top teams. We have one match in hand. I know already because Southampton has to play the quarter-final of the FA Cup in the same weekend we should play - I know already we are not going to play that match.

“It’s very complicated so we have to fight and we have to wait until the last match to see what happens because anything can happen.We can finish top four, we can finish top six or we can finish outside top six. Anything can happen and we must make sure the best possible thing can happen.”

Tottenham may be some way down the Premier League standings, but they are only six points adrift of fourth-placed Chelsea.They also boast a game in hand on all of the top six, meaning that forward momentum could be established.Spurs supporters had been hoping for much more this season, with Mourinho’s men topping the table at one stage, but they can still finish with a flourish

Link: https://www.goal.com/en/news/mourinho-spurs-top-four-chances-slipping-ninth/1lb8bcaqfnb1m168er5rj6vxvw

 

I must admit that it's a convincing argument to remain positive...so I will !!

COYS !!!!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Borodin said:

Jose's current view on the subject :

Mourinho has told talkSPORT: “The same way you lose three matches and go to a bad position, the same way you win three matches and go to a much better position.

“Like it happened last season, let’s keep it going until the end and let’s see what the table will give us. In the end, the table always gives you what you deserve and it’s very premature to think about the definition of the table. People still have matches in hand, and in our case we have played already two matches against Liverpool, two matches against Chelsea, two matches against Manchester City; there are other teams who haven’t played a second game against one of the top teams. We have one match in hand. I know already because Southampton has to play the quarter-final of the FA Cup in the same weekend we should play - I know already we are not going to play that match.

“It’s very complicated so we have to fight and we have to wait until the last match to see what happens because anything can happen.We can finish top four, we can finish top six or we can finish outside top six. Anything can happen and we must make sure the best possible thing can happen.”

Tottenham may be some way down the Premier League standings, but they are only six points adrift of fourth-placed Chelsea.They also boast a game in hand on all of the top six, meaning that forward momentum could be established.Spurs supporters had been hoping for much more this season, with Mourinho’s men topping the table at one stage, but they can still finish with a flourish

Link: https://www.goal.com/en/news/mourinho-spurs-top-four-chances-slipping-ninth/1lb8bcaqfnb1m168er5rj6vxvw

 

I must admit that it's a convincing argument to remain positive...so I will !!

COYS !!!!

 

 

I see it more as a hopeful reason to remain positive rather than proof as being plausible. It is 'ifs' and 'buts' with no guarantee it will happen. I would believe it the way City are playing, it is asking too much of me the we are playing. 

In 56/57, Spurs were 3 pts behind Utd with 2 games in hand with 5 games to go. They lost them both and finished 2nd 8 points behind - Spurs were the ones to crumble and not Utd. What is more Spurs were playing well at the time. I was only 17 and was heartbroken. 

I accept the chance is there, but with cautious optimism as a hope it will happen. 

COYS 

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1 hour ago, Borodin said:

Southampton could do us a massive favour by beating Chelsea today and it's not an impossible task. I reckon they might just do it, leaving us 6pts behind the blues but with two games in hand.

Nice thought but more in hope, I fear.

Chelsea are on an upwards streak and Southampton the opposite. I have got my glass is half empty head on today with the the West Ham game going to be a toughy. 

COYS 

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I know there are those who like to promulgate scenarios that show us getting 4th place. 

As you all know, I prefer to be far more conservative and to highlight the pitfalls to be overcome. 

West Ham are currently 4th and 3 points ahead of us. There final 5 games are against Burnley A, Everton H, Brighton A, West Brom A and Southampton H. Not the toughest of run ins. 

Spurs final 5 games are against Sheff Utd H, Leeds A, Wolves H, Aston Villa H and Leicester A. Some banana  skin games there, possibly. 

WHU start with a 3 point lead and are on a good run with their last 3 defeats being against Liverpool, Man City and Man Utd. They will be pretty confident. 

Then, of course, there is Liverpool. With there latest 3 - 0 win against Arsenal and now with the same points as us, they are still very much in the mix. There last 5 games are against Man Utd A, Southampton H, West Brom A, Burnley A and Crystal Palace H. 

Chelsea have a 2 point advantage over us with possibly the toughest final games which are against Fulham H, Man City A, Arsenal H, Leicester H and Aston Villa A. 

The month of May is going to be very tough and Spurs need to learn how to cope and play well under pressure, something that hasn't happened too much of late. 5th or 6th position which is probably a more realistic hope at the moment. That said, it could easily be 7th as some on here have been predicting. 

My own view remains the same. I have seen no consistent evidence in our last 12 EPL games to suggest there is real hope for a 4th place finish. In fact, for me I would not be surprised if we finished 6th or 7th.

COYS 

 

 

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On the 16th of February when we were lying 9th, I posted the following:-

To get 4th spot all 5 teams directly above them would have to slump while Spurs put a run together to climb over them, and just couldn't see it happening.

It produced a a few replies implying negativity and posts suggesting it was better to remain positive while mathematically it was possible. 

My projections, if I bother to make them are based on statistics. With the way the last 2 games have gone, it seems being pragmatic instead of always looking on the bright side is not necessarily being negative. 

COYS 

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Never mind top 4.

I have just read that had the season started in mid-January, we would now be sitting in the bottom 3 with Southampton and Sheff Utd!!!! 

Well done, Jose. 

Perhaps it is time you thought of retiring - after all, having inflicted misery on both Utd and Spurs fans, can you at long last admit your style is obsolete and not look for a 3rd club to ruin. 

COYS 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jamesinashby said:

West Ham are 2-1 up and now 1 point ahead of us. 

There remainaing 4 games are Everton H, Brighton A, West Brom A and Southampton H. 

 

 

They're two points above us mate on 58. If Burnley can snatch a draw we stay above them on goal difference.

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8 minutes ago, Borodin said:

They're two points above us mate on 58. If Burnley can snatch a draw we stay above them on goal difference.

I meant to add that, but I pressed submit by mistake and then couldn't be bothered to add it as I am ready for bed. 

Both body and mind are feeling very tired, and today has been very long and tiring. 

Catch you in the morning. 

COYS 

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