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Rookie1968

So what’s he going to do about it

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It’s fair to say that our recent results can be described as a slump in form so what is Poch going to do about it.

rotate squad even more?

wait for the transfer window?

drop some of our so called star performers to try an get their bite back?

Change tactics ?

concentrate in certain area whilst letting other areas fall away? ie go for a cup instead of league

let me know your thoughts and ideas.

 

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Going on the (unproven) basis this slump is down to poor morale from a number of players within the squad possibly being tapped-up or being promised the earth by their agents resulting in the possibility some have had their heads turned, I would leave them out for a couple of weeks with the understanding they get their heads straight and any decision can and will be made at the end of the season but until then I expect a 100% commitment from you if you want me to help you achieve your long-term goal! Fuck me and this club about and we will do the same to you! But in more of a diplomatic dialog! Either this or Poch go's to the board and says I need to keep hold of these players if we are gonna go on to achieve what we hope to this season and re-assure them that the big money contract will be there this time next year Rodney!!

Ps: While your waiting here's another million each for your loyalty!

I so want to be wrong because this is what I hate about the modern game. Greeeeed!

 

My next league starting 11........

Lloris. Trips/Foyth/Verts/Davies. Dier. Dembele/Winks/Lamela. Son/Kane.

 

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Big changes are not what is required. In fact, fewer changes may be better!

Injuries permitting, I think we should play a consistent back three and at least one defensive midfielder (Wanyama). The front 3 of Kane, Dele and Eriksen should also start every game, which means you can rotate the full backs and then pick and choose between Winks/Dembele/Lamela for the last place, according to who we are playing.

It would mean no starting place for Son or Dier, but I can live with that.

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Sorry Crom, we appear to have much in common regarding Spurs, but I have to go with Rookie on this. I am reaching the conclusion that I have mislead myself on just how good and reliable Alli and Eriksen really are. I am joining the band that say they have to be benched as a kick up the arse for under performing and I would definitely keep Son in for his pace and energy. I also feel that as good as the squad is, it is short of cover for our  important best players. We seem to really miss the likes of Wanyama and Toby in defence and, this season Harry in attack. The new arrivals and existing players are not seeming to step up to the mark. For me the last few games have been totally unacceptable and we should forget the carrot and hand out a bit of stick.

I am not holding my breath that DL and the board will increase the wage ceiling nor splash out on proven top players so we may well be stuck with what we have.

COYS

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We don't have to agree all the time James! It is what makes these discussions interesting. We all love Spurs and want the best, but maybe disagree on how to get that.

I certainly believe that the three centre backs and main defensive midfielder should start every game if possible. I'm open to debate about the other preferred starters but Dele and Eriksen are too good to leave out, even when their form dips. 

Rookie - I would prefer Lamela to Son, but I do agree that Son gives us that something extra when he plays, especially when he actually manages an end product !!

 

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If Enic will not budge on their wage structure, and from what I'm reading about DL's refusal to give Toby a pay rise to 5.5mill (£110,000 per week) that's very unlikely, then we wont be stuck with what we have because none of our top players (Maybe Harry aside) wont be at The Lane!

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3 minutes ago, Cromulentmart said:

We don't have to agree all the time James! It is what makes these discussions interesting. We all love Spurs and want the best, but maybe disagree on how to get that.

I certainly believe that the three centre backs and main defensive midfielder should start every game if possible. I'm open to debate about the other preferred starters but Dele and Eriksen are too good to leave out, even when their form dips. 

Rookie - I would prefer Lamela to Son, but I do agree that Son gives us that something extra when he plays, especially when he actually manages an end product !!

 

I think a side should be picked on form not reputation. Winksy deserves a starting place and Lamela albeit not match fit (tomorrows game a great opportunity to speed that up) is hungry to play so these 2 right now for me should be ahead of Dele/Eriksen and have Son/Dembele along side them in the mid-field.

Coys!

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If the top three seemed vulnerable,i,e, Man City, Man U, and Chelea  now wouldn't be the worst time to have a hiccup or two, unfortunately Man City is running away with it and look to be unbeatable. the second and third seem likely sown up as well. Liverpool had looked vulnerable but Salah is in incredible form and will probably get the golden boot. Arsenal's star seems on the rise but their Key signing is injured again? Mustafi? so I believe there is hope for us yet. I don't ever think you should leave Rose entirely out of a game and I think there might be some Ego at play here, we need Wanayama back and we must ,even at a loss get rid of sissoko and I'm afraid Loriente as well

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Slump, certainly not a disaster.

I  think it's clear that Dele needs to play himself back into form, but I certainly don 't want him or The Dane injured on wednesday.

Maybe Llorente should be started and a few others...

Foyth could be given a chance to show if he is ready to step to replace Dave, while he is suspended (what was he thinking?...), Lamela looks hungry to play, and maybe some other young uns will get a run...

Gaza in goal as well perhaps ?

With regard to the return of the contract talk subject, it recently occurred to me that the reason DL may not be improving Toby's might be to do with his fitness ?

It seemed fairly trivial, as did last season's problem, and he has always looked very strong when playing but takes a long time to get back from injury....

I hope not, obviously.

Anyway, I am going on Weds so I can give a first hand report of my evening at Wemberley...

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3 minutes ago, daft yank said:

If the top three seemed vulnerable,i,e, Man City, Man U, and Chelea  now wouldn't be the worst time to have a hiccup or two, unfortunately Man City is running away with it and look to be unbeatable. the second and third seem likely sown up as well. Liverpool had looked vulnerable but Salah is in incredible form and will probably get the golden boot. Arsenal's star seems on the rise but their Key signing is injured again? Mustafi? so I believe there is hope for us yet. I don't ever think you should leave Rose entirely out of a game and I think there might be some Ego at play here, we need Wanayama back and we must ,even at a loss get rid of sissoko and I'm afraid Loriente as well

The guy that Burnley picked up from leeds, and scored against us, looks to have the kind of attitude we need, there nmust be others out there whon are scoring in the lower leagues, and we might bre able to swap out llorente, or just loan him in exchange......

Maybe Barklay deal might be warmed up, but he has been injured and also Fat Sam might play him again....

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4 hours ago, Cromulentmart said:

We don't have to agree all the time James! It is what makes these discussions interesting. We all love Spurs and want the best, but maybe disagree on how to get that.

I certainly believe that the three centre backs and main defensive midfielder should start every game if possible. I'm open to debate about the other preferred starters but Dele and Eriksen are too good to leave out, even when their form dips. 

Rookie - I would prefer Lamela to Son, but I do agree that Son gives us that something extra when he plays, especially when he actually manages an end product !!

 

Unfortunately i’m not a fan of lamela gives the ball away too often makes too many fouls and has no pace imo an off the bench bloke  at best our game seems to have slowed which is why teams are figuring us out they have more time to do so instead of us ripping them apart and they being clueless as to whats happening to them

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3 hours ago, Rookie1968 said:

Unfortunately i’m not a fan of lamela gives the ball away too often makes too many fouls and has no pace imo an off the bench bloke  at best our game seems to have slowed which is why teams are figuring us out they have more time to do so instead of us ripping them apart and they being clueless as to whats happening to them

Had you posted this 18 months ago I would have agreed with you Rookie and you still might be right (Leopard Spots and all that!) My hope/feeling that when a player has been out injured for over a year his desire/commitment will shine through and right now that's what we need and it just might become infectious! 

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3 hours ago, Tonto911 said:

Slump, certainly not a disaster.

I  think it's clear that Dele needs to play himself back into form, but I certainly don 't want him or The Dane injured on wednesday.

Maybe Llorente should be started and a few others...

Foyth could be given a chance to show if he is ready to step to replace Dave, while he is suspended (what was he thinking?...), Lamela looks hungry to play, and maybe some other young uns will get a run...

Gaza in goal as well perhaps ?

With regard to the return of the contract talk subject, it recently occurred to me that the reason DL may not be improving Toby's might be to do with his fitness ?

It seemed fairly trivial, as did last season's problem, and he has always looked very strong when playing but takes a long time to get back from injury....

I hope not, obviously.

Anyway, I am going on Weds so I can give a first hand report of my evening at Wemberley...

Could be and as we know DL is able to emotionally detach himself and is always looking at the balance sheet long-term which I have to admit more often than not he has got right so far BUT....

All I would add is (and I don't like it) in this business today at the highest level, which is where I assume we want to be and remain is it would be a bigger waste of money to now put a leash on that investment. By that I mean we have a very good, potentially great squad, of 15+ players and we need to continue to invest in them i.e pay them the going rate! Otherwise the previous seasons of progression, flirting with The EPL Championship and this seasons run in The CL will all be for nothing imo!

We have got more than a toe in the door, we have got half a boot! So lets now kick it in! Otherwise what was the point of enduring the pain of having the door smashed against our boot!

I love a metaphor first thing in the morning!!

Daniel's gotta surf!

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We talk about needing to pay the going rate that the top players expect to be paid and could get elsewhere, but that presumably would lead to those in the lower echelons wanting more. Also when replacing top players the likelihood of always being able to buy cheaply and convert them to top class is low so replacements will cost top dollar. For the super rich teams, money is no object. All they need to worry about is the money in/money out ratio which, as we all know, is easily got round by buying the naming rights for £400M like Man City or something similar. Realistically, with the new stadium build and existing debts, do we know for certain we can afford this? Also, some of our purchases have not really performed to the level expected and may turn out to be expensive white elephants.

Just a couple of thoughts to broaden the discussion.

COYS

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1 hour ago, Cromulentmart said:

The fact is that we could raise Toby's salary to £5m p.a. and there are clubs who would pay him £6m. If we went to £6m, they would offer 7. It's a game we cannot win.

Succinctly put. My diatribe could have been shortened to five words. We can't afford to compete.

COYS

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48 minutes ago, Jamesinashby said:

Succinctly put. My diatribe could have been shortened to five words. We can't afford to compete.

COYS

That's a fact! All we can hope to offer is reasonable wage (relatively speaking) maybe 20% less than the top player 'average' wage which I'm guessing is about 8mill? and hope that London, the training facilities, the new ground and Poch would be enough to keep our top players!

As ridiculous to the likes of us as it sounds we/Enic have to understand 80-90 grand a week is not enough for the epl elite. Kane/Toby/Lloris/Eriksen should all be on close to 7 mill a year imo.

The likes of Rose, Lamela, Dele, Dier, Verts, Wanyama not far behind, then Sonny, Trips, Davies, and some of the others bringing up the rear on a poultry 5mill or so!

All very easy for me to type I know and if we really can not afford this type of wage bill then we are rarely, if ever gonna compete again and never be recognised as one of the best in Europe. Maybe to expect all of the above is just delusion on my part!

The job done by all at THFC over these past few years has been nothing short of miraculous considering but is this as far as we are likely to go now?

Edited by Royce 71
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24 minutes ago, Royce 71 said:

That's a fact! All we can hope to offer is reasonable wage (relatively speaking) maybe 20% less than the top player 'average' wage which I'm guessing is about 8mill? and hope that London, the training facilities, the new ground and Poch would be enough to keep our top players!

As ridiculous to the likes of us as it sounds we/Enic have to understand 80-90 grand a week is not enough for the epl elite. Kane/Toby/Lloris/Eriksen should all be on close to 7 mill a year imo.

The likes of Rose, Lamela, Dele, Dier, Verts, Wanyama not far behind, then Sonny, Trips, Davies, and some of the others bringing up the rear on a poultry 5mill or so!

All very easy for me to type I know and if we really can not afford this type of wage bill then we are rarely, if ever gonna compete again and never be recognised as one of the best in Europe. Maybe to expect all of the above is just delusion on my part!

The job done by all at THFC over these past few years has been nothing short of miraculous considering but is this as far as we are likely to go now?

The players named were pleased to be given their last massive pay rises at the last contract negotiation.

Poch knew of the Wage/Financial situation at Spurs even when he had his massive pay rise.

If Wages are not under his direct control then Motivation,Tatics! Formations,Fitness, Training,etc etc etc are!!!! This team is the same as the last 2 years when we finished 2nd and 3rd and has recruited players that should make us stronger.

Poch can take the plaudits but he must recognise the buck..... Finishes with him.

We can go on an extended winning run and regain 4th place  but I am not sure we will.

 

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1 minute ago, Asc3 said:

 

Poch can take the plaudits but he must recognise the buck..... Finishes with him.

We can go on an extended winning run and regain 4th place  but I am not sure we will.

 

I think you are right. I accept we have had our chances and not taken them which would have put a different aspect on things. However, over a season, this occurs with all teams. Klopp got Liverpool going again as did Conte with Chelsea. Yes, it was the players failing to score, but it is then up to the manager and coaches to lift the players and put things right on the training ground. Also, when the important players under perform, imo we must have the courage to put them on the bench when it goes on as long as it has this season. Sadly that didn't happen with us. Consequently, that 4th spot is turning from being a mole hill into a mountain. 

COYS

 

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Not sure if Foyth is ready for PL football. KWP should be in the rotation.

Transfer Business:

It seems like Barkley's recovery takes time. Let Everton pay for his recovery and we sign him as a free transfer in Jan. GKN can't break into the first team. Loan him out and get Jordon Ibe. Loan deal to swap Llorente for Klaassen? Everton need a striker. We would use a central midfielder. Big Sam will want money to get his own players. A loan deal with option for permanent move may work well for us.

 

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3 hours ago, Asc3 said:

The players named were pleased to be given their last massive pay rises at the last contract negotiation.

Poch knew of the Wage/Financial situation at Spurs even when he had his massive pay rise.

If Wages are not under his direct control then Motivation,Tatics! Formations,Fitness, Training,etc etc etc are!!!! This team is the same as the last 2 years when we finished 2nd and 3rd and has recruited players that should make us stronger.

Poch can take the plaudits but he must recognise the buck..... Finishes with him.

We can go on an extended winning run and regain 4th place  but I am not sure we will.

 

Granted but we are dealing with precious, fickle modern day footballers and their agents. What was acceptable and signed 6 months ago is now fish and chip paper!

I believe Poch has done everything you say he should be doing in fact its because he has done such a good job that most of our players are wanted by other clubs!

Enic can not have it both ways. Improve the players, so the players value increases in the market but we (Enic) are then not prepared to recognise that market when it comes to increasing that players wages! That's just nonsense! We (Enic) have got away with it these past few years and that is a credit to Poch and the characters he has brought into the club, but now, enough is enough and I feel this is how a number of players (Walker/Rose/ maybe Eriksen and Dele too?) are now feeling and being encouraged to feel this way by their agents!

Good to hear from you Asc3 man!

Coys!

 

 

Edited by Royce 71
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We are potentially victims of our own success!

Poch has turned 10-15-25million£ players on 40-60-80,000£ a week into 60-80-100 million£ players who as result should be on 80-120-160,000£ per week!

Its up to Enic now to do their bit imo!

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